Support for Raising Spirited Babies

[sherry lynn]

Hi,
My name is Sherry and I have a little spirited baby. His name is Lyle. Some day I'll figure out how to put the picture on. We have worked very hard on the easy schedule for a month now and things have gotten much better. He turned 12 weeks old today and we had the best nap day ever. It still takes 20 minutes of ptt/sh but much less crying. If I leave him on his own he will play for 20-30 minutes, then cry, and it will take 20-60 minutes to get him down, if at all. So I've decided to just do the pat/shh and it's working much better. My question is, has anybody found a good way to make a spirited baby more sleepy before you put them in the bassinet so that it doesn't take so long for them to go to sleep. I have found that everything is over stimulating for him: Books, singing, rocking, even cuddling. I try to have him cuddle and he decides he wants to do push-ups of my chest, all this while he's in his swaddle. We went back to swaddling and it has been a godsent. We currently have a miracle blanket and I'm wondering what I should use after the 13th week?

[sherry lynn]

Oh, another question. We have lots of difficulty with the catnap at around 5. In the nap forum they talk about stealing the catnap, but I can't do that. The swing is too stimulating, he won't go to sleep anywhere but his bassinet. It takes so long to get him to sleep that I often feel it's really not worth it with him. He seems to be going down for bed better now that his other naps during the day have gotten a lot better. Do you guys have any success with the catnap?

[maman_d_emily]

Hi Sherry and welcome,
At that age, nothing work to calm my lo but maybe a pacifier might help.  My lo wouldn't take it at that age.   I don't exactly know what a miracle blanket is but you can use any blanket that is big enough to swaddle your baby.  Truly, I was never able to have my dd to do a catnap so after many weeks of crying I decided not to do it.  Let's say she was a bit OT (but she was if I try it or not) and I was better (one less nap, one less hour or two of crying).  You can still try the catnap with sh/pat, if it's not working maybe you can put him to bed earlier.
Annie

[ElsMom]

Welcome Sherry!  As for the catnap, I had a hard time getting Elsie to bed that late as well, but eventually got her used to it by doing shush/pat through a couple of entire naps - I just stayed in the room with her and started shushing and patting again every time she stirred, and then after it had been about 30 minutes I left her to wake on her own.  I don't know if you're able to do that, and it might not be worth it if he's not crabby before bed. I only had to do that for a couple of naps before she got it on her own.

Don't know that I'm much help on the wind down.  Here's what we do:  about 10 minutes before her A time is up, I pick Elsie up and we walk around the house, and I talk quietly about going to sleep and how good a nap is going to feel.  Then about 5 minutes before, we go up to her room and close the curtains, turn on her lullaby CD, and then sit in the rocker (not rocking) and I read to her in a whisper while she sits on my lap.  She mostly just chews on the books.  I do that until she starts to fuss, and then I put her in her sleep sack, tell her again how good her nap is going to feel, and put her in her crib.  Then I hide until she starts to fuss, and then shush/pat until she falls asleep (the whole thing usually takes about 15 minutes).  If I put her in her crib before the first fuss, she won't go down, and if I try to shush/pat before the 2nd fuss, she won't go down.  It takes a while to figure out exactly what works for your specific LO.  Good luck to you!  I know it's so complicated when they refuse to cuddle or rock - before Elsie, I didn't know there was such a thing as a baby who hated those things! 

[pbmom]

Welcome Sherry and Lyle.  FWIW, I used the MB well past 13 weeks with my first and with my second.  It was great! 

As for winddown, I also find that we can't do anything here.  B is now 6.5mos and I still can't do reading or sitting together.  My WD basically consists of carry her around downstairs for 10 or so min and letting her get a bit relaxed (of course, the spirit that she is has to be facing out, not over the shoulder so you can imagine how my back feels!).  Then we head upstairs and I change her diaper and into the grobag (usually whispering a song).  Then it's on my shoulder and that lasts for about 20 seconds while I whisper how good a 2 hr nap will feel (maybe one day she'll process that!).  Then into the crib.  Oh, it's also really dark in her room, but not pitch black. 

Not much help on shh/pat.  She hated it at that age and completely freaked.  She took paci and would go out on her own.  It was the nap extension I had a prob with. 

Sounds like you are doing great and he is so young.  I think that if you keep at it as hard as it is you will be sitting pretty when your lo is mine's age.  How I wish she liked shh/pat back then so I could have extended some naps.  Once I removed the swaddle naps went to hell!

[sherry lynn]

I have been camping out in his room. Especially for the first nap of the day. I find if that goes well, the rest goes much better. Right now for every nap, thankfully not bedtime it takes 20 min to get him to sleep, then sitting there for at least another 20 to help him through the transition. For the morning nap, I've just been waiting around til the 45 min and 1 hour mark. At 1 hr and 10 min I usually leave. I'm wondering how long I should do this for, because I don't want him to get use to me being a prop. If he takes a good morning nap I don't do this for the others. After a month of shear terror, things have become much better. He just slept through the night for the 4th night in a row. So at least that is better. I find that sometimes I'm still feeding at the 2 1/2 mark though when he doesn't sleep long. Do you guys think that is okay at 12 weeks? I know we have to start transitioning to the 4 hour schedule soon, but his awake time (when he's not ot) is still pretty short most of the time. When did you guys start transitioning. Was it really hard with a spirited on? His room is also pretty dark. In fact once the sun goes down it's pretty hard to see his little eyes.

[Neeenah]

Hi guys..thanks for all the great support. It is now Day Seven....things have improved  - I now know she was so overtired. I feel so bad. But this working and she is sleeping much longer, naps and at night. I am so grateful that I found/read Tracy's book, as I did not want to do CIO.
This method is not easy by any means, but I am sticking with it and have seen great results already.
Last night she went to bed at 6:30p - Dad did the dream feed at 10:30 - she woke at 3am, I went in, shhhhhd and patted her, she went back to sleep. I did have to stay in for a bit as she jerks and wakes a few times..takes about 20 min until she is fully asleep. But no crying and no picking her up. Then she woke up at 5am. That was tougher..she just cut her first tooth and I am sure she is in pain from that too - . Took about 30 + min to get her back down after I fed her - .she then went right back to sleep. Had to then wake her at 7:30a  I think the 4:30 cat nap works best for her. For quite time, we do a bath, go into her room, lights very dim, turn on very light classical music feed her, start to pat her back and shhhhhh. Then lay her down, she is out like a light !!! Thanks again for the encouragement !!

[ElsMom]

Sherry - I wouldn't worry about 4 hr easy yet.  Lots of LOs aren't ready for it at 4 months, and you're just at 12 weeks!  Try to stick with 3 hrs when you can - and remember that sometimes EASAE is necessary when you have shorter naps.  I used to hang out through almost the whole nap, too - that's SOO hard on a mommy, not having any Y time.  Just try to be a little bit less of a prop gradually until one day you make the plunge and don't help at all.  Maybe transition from sshh/pat to just sshh, and then sshh from farther away... I eventually got to the point where I just went into her room and stood silently through the transition to make sure she didn't wake. 

Neeenah - sounds like great progress!  Way to go!!

[pbmom]

Neeenah - yay!  So glad you are feeling positive.  It is not "easy" but it is so worth it.  Just wait - when you have a toddler that goes to sleep anywhere and for the whole night and for naps while other kids are running amuck and so forth.  You'll be so thankful!  I certainly am!

Sherry - I agree with PP.  Definitely try to stick with 3 hrs if you can, but if lo is hungry at 2.5hrs so be it.  BW is about following cues so go with your gut.  He is still so young. 

For naps, I would definitely stay in there for a bit longer and gradually reduce how much you help.  That's what I did and now I walk in, do WD, place her in crib and walk out. 

[sherry lynn]

Thanks for the thoughts. Today for the last long nap I was able to leave while his eyes were still opening and closing. Yeah! He had a lot of trouble with the transition at 45 min. But I just shh/pt until it was time to get up and he had a fitful 30 min more of sleep. Right now we are waiting for tired signs to put him down for the catnap. So far, nothing much, so maybe he won't go down again.

[Mileshunt]

Hi everyone,

I'm Linds and my LO is Laura.  She's 18weeks old and I've finally accepted that I have a Spirited/Textbook baby rather than a Textbook/Spirited!!  She is so lovely and fun but boy do we fight naptimes!!! At around 3months I finally felt like we'd cracked it.  Naps and nightime were fine at last, we had a turning point when she discovered her thumbs! But during the last month everything has gone pear shaped again.  I think it's due to growth spurt, possible teething, becoming more mobile and trying to transition naturally to a 4hr EASY. I suspect I'm overtiring her...   I find it not too bad if I've had a good night's sleep but like this morning it took all my energy to get out of bed.  I get sooooo fustrated because she can settle herself to sleep with her thumb but getting her to stay asleep is a nightmare as she won't settle herself.  I keep thinking is it something I've done 'wrong'.  Take this morning she woke early from her nap upset & wanting more sleep so I went in and did pat/shhhh.  She looked at me and grinned and then started crying again!!!!!     Sometimes I have to walk away for a few seconds to collect myself and goodness knows what will happen if we have another spirited one!  I think if it's hereditary then I'm the spirited one but my parents let me cry it out (even when suffering from colic) as my mum told me (looking very distressed and guilty) so they can't remember having any 'problems' with me.  Anyway when she smiles it makes it all worth it!!!  So glad there is this thread and to know that we're not the only ones.  Spirited babies give a lot of pleasure but also keep you on your toes (or in my case bent over the cot whispering sweet nothings into her ear!!).

Linds x

[OJ30]

Hi all,
Have posted on here before.  We have had some success with sh/pat and wind down/bedtime routines as we can now put Alex down with very little fuss. I have learnt to read his sleepy cues and tend to follow his lead.  He no longer fights being swaddled and seems to almost welcome it.  This has really helped as he is so much calmer and falls asleep within 10 mins if I have read the cues correctly.  This also means I get a little Y time.  Yippee!
However, we are still struggling with short naps (always 45 mins to the minute) and I have tried everything to get him through transition.  Wake 2 sleep didn't work at all.  I know he is able to put himself back to sleep as he does it at night and for the final nap of the day (1 1/2 - 2 hours).  He often wakes content and happy so could this be all he needs?  Currently our EASY is more EASASE.
Any suggestions as to what we can try next?
Thanks
Jo and Alex (13 weeks)

[Neeenah]

Linda I feel your pain....We are on Day 13: McKenna is doing great during the day (3 naps 2 at least an hour long..one at 30 min at 4:30) Dream Feed at 10:30p..well she hasn’t been so good at night. Up from about 2:30-4:30a - I pick her up..put her down…shhhushhhh and I pat her back...she'll fall asleep then wake in 5 min and this goes on and on. She then starts to roll over, sometimes even starts to giggle wants to play. Then she'll start crying, rubbing her face into the mattress...putting her knees into her chest...pulls at the bumpers.....I go out of the room for 1/2 hour or so.....she just won't fall back asleep!! We are so exhausted. Been like this for 3 days now. She was doing so good. She does put her self back to sleep about 1a. She cried last night around 11p,but she fell back asleep, so she is learning. She also did that during her nap yesterday. Fussed/cried then fell asleep on her own. She is so spirited, feisty and determined. Always wants to go, go, go go...loves to explore and move around on her tummy. Even in the middle of the night !!!

[dredhead]

hey I have a spirited baby too - phew, how anyone keeps their baby weight racing about after these monkeys i dont know!I love how in the photos posted of these babies, theyre almost all hilariously awake and buzzy; check them out, it made me laugh browsing through the past 13 odd pages! we're all in a very similar boat i think!  love them, proud of them but cor blimey theyre exhausting! 

Im floating the 45 min nap canoe too - although am starting to get past having to carry the dd to sleep and at least a couple of naps in the last few days have been started from horizontal on the bed, breakthrough! nights have been going down like a dream too, from about 6.30 onwards ALTHOUGH from 12 it all goes a bit haywire and i think thats largely due to dummy deprivation.  Thatll have to be addressed as soon as i can get the naps all happy in the cot... THEN ill do the 45 min nap thing - so many things nutty, all meaning i havent had more than 3 hours sleep in a row for 18 weeks - arrrg! BUT itll get there and shes just such as chirpy happy baby - just doesnt sleep! 

great to hear all your stories, love to hear successess too. we tried leaving her to cry - no no no not a chance! she got so irate that even just putting her into the cot was an trauma so she ended up in our bed and now is slowly returning to the cot! 4 hours of crying  :'(and furious grabbing just didnt send her to sleep im afraid! dont think ill be trying that again!xxx

[JKHH]

Hi everyone. I haven't been on this thread in a long time. I am happy to see it is still around. My spirited DD is now almost three yrs. But I can relate to everything that is being said. The hardest part for me was my DD crying out the world before going to sleep!!!  My new DD is 3 months old. She is textbook but her routine changes every three days...there is little consistancy with her plus she is very windy which causes problems...so even with a textbook baby it is not easy...no pun intended.

Sherry - I read your question..."has anybody found a good way to make a spirited baby more sleepy before you put them in the bassinet so that it doesn't take so long for them to go to sleep."

What was recommended to me was to do a "carry walk" in a pre wind down...in other words end your A time 5-10 minutes early and just do a quiet walk around your house carrying your LO. I always sang the same song. I found the spirited side of my DD needed to wind down before the actual wind down could really take hold.

RE: the swaddle...we hung onto it as long as we could. Once our DD rolled over on to her tummy that is when we gave it up. For us that was at 4 months. Then we switched to a Grobag. I was worried she wouldn't sleep etc...but she was fine.

As a side note, I was concerned how my DD's spiritedness would affect her as she got older. Would she always be such a challange to go to sleep? How would she do at nursery school etc? If anyone is having these thoughts please know that it will be okay! My DD is still spirited but now it shows itself as major excitement and a zest for life. As my sister says, my DD gets more out of life than most people. And at the same time, she is able to play quietly by herself and she is a very sensitive and loving big sister.

All the best!