Support for Raising Spirited Babies

[Tinynic]

I used to say that Brooke knew where the camera was and wanted to be famous 'cause she would always stare right into it.  Turns out the little green light distracted her...nosy little thing!

that is so funny because we have been laughing at my son saying he is a poser because he ALWAYS look straight into the camera.  getting his passport picture done was easy ..... now i know why.

in response to the other posts.  I am by no means an expert but i think my boy is a spirited child = 11 weeks old.  when he started 45 min and 30 min naps i really thought i was going to go crazy.  it felt like i spent nearly all my time in his room trying to get him to sleep .  we would have lots of crying fits before his naps but in the end i decided to chill out a bit.  i take him out the house more, mainly in the morning as he is better then and he is learning to fall asleep on the go without crying.  when we are home, i dont try to put him down after every A time.  i wait until i see him grumble then i help him sleep and this week we have had less crying beforehand and hes sleeping longer, sometimes 1hr 30 mins.  after his morning feed, he doesnt always sleep until after his next feed and if hes happy then im happy.  today i think he only slept a total of 3 hours during the day (from 7-7) but he was happy.  i have found that the more naps he took during the day, the more disrupted his nighttime sleep was.  He now sleeps from 7.30 to about 12/1 and then to about 4/5 and then to 7/8.

someone said to me on here that spirited babies love routine and its true.  he loves his morning and bedtime routine.  during the day i dont really have one except he eats every 3 hours and i am working on this.  i dont currently have a wind down as ive never yet been successful with anything but ill keep trying, im just fearful of trying to get him to sleep when hes under tired as i think i was doing this before. 

dont give up. choose what you are going to do and stick with it.

[Mileshunt]

Hi Tinynic - reading some of your posts reminds me of how my Laura was a couple of months ago.  She's 5months old now and the spirited side really shows in her eating and sleeping.  She does confuse me sometimes because when she's tired or hungry she'll blow raspberries!  The only way I know she's tired is because she'll start babbling and gets quite violent throwing her stuffed toys about.  I've had to restrict hard rattles to when I'm there o/w she'll bash herself on the head. with her flailing arms! Things are tons easier now when we're out and about because even though she might get tired I can distract her.  Up until she was around 3 months old she would scream and scream and scream because she was tired but wouldn't conk out on me like my friends' babies.  So many times I ended up giving her a comfort feed in the hope she'd nod off  .

I've lost track of the hours I've spent trying to get her to sleep during naptimes and then it turned into hours trying to keep her asleep! I too tried spending a block of days together to try and crack the sleep thing.  Nowadays, for my sanity more than anything if I can't get her back to sleep then I'll take her for a walk.  I know she can do 2hr naps because she will do them sporadically.  We have a very simple WD, change nappy in her room, read a story and then close blind & curtains before having a cuddle for a few mins.

Now eating is too boring/my let down isn't fast enough!!  I've had to start giving her a bottle for one feed (esp if out and about) because her head's turning this way and that!!  She can chug 8oz in 10mins !!!!!!!  Still now we've started first tastes it's great that she loves food and will embrace any new experience.  She'll try anything - even quite lumpy things although she can't quite manage them just yet.  She really wants to feed herself though so I give her an empty spoon to practice with.

It's been really interesting having a nose on this thread and reassuring to know that routine is the way forward.  The fun things about having a slightly spirited LO outweigh the bad (esp when I've had enough sleep lol)!  I've come to the conclusion that sometimes there's no clear cut answers why our naps sometimes go like the book says and other times are a nightmare so I just try to roll with it - although that's easier said than done given my personality!!!!! I try to be consistent while at the same time being pragmatic and P.C.  - it's hard though eh?!

Linds x

[Fiona (Leah & Kians Mom)]

Well I have finally found my home  only read 2 pages cos it's only in the last 2 months I discovered that ds is now spirited, he was textbook spirited but now its more spirited. He has been flying round the place on his belly for 2 months now and is in to everything. He got the loo brush the other day cos dd left the door open and I was answering the front door, the fuss when I pulled it off him. And he screams when things dont go his way. He gets so frustrated when he cant do what he wants, right now its trying to put himself in a sitting positon from his belly. When he is awake he is awake that's it no matter how long he has slept or what time it is. He is always manky dirty from the floor which is mopped every 2 days or from feeding which is just a blast, he rubs it in his eyebrows hair ears etc. With regards to sleep I find that he needs his routine, even more so than dd who was an angel. And yes re the dark room, I have a black out blind on his window but it lets some light in at the sides so I taped it to the window which means I cant open it or the window so I have ordered another one to under the one i have. Dh thinks I am crazy but if it helps him sleep I dont care how much it costs :-)

[pbmom]

OMG Fiona - Welcome and LOL at the blinds taped to the wall.  I should definitely do that!  I actually have a dark blue sheet over Brooke's windows on top of the blackout blinds and her curtains so there is no light.  It's too bad as her curtains are so cute!  But, she sleeps so much better that way.  My DH thinks I'm a nut, but oh well.

Nicola - LMAO at the passport pic coming out great...see...they are so nosy!!!  Glad to hear of your new attitude and that you seemed to have found a bit of a routine   FWIW, lots of spirited babes need less sleep than that recommended or the least amnt. recommended for any particular age.   

Linds - welcome!  I wanted to tell you that naps for Brooke didn't really settle themselves until 6.5 mos old.  Whomever said that naps sort themselves at 6 mos definitely had an angel baby!  For us, the early days were spent with endless extending efforts and shortening A time due to short naps, etc.  The only time before now that she napped well was 3-5mos when she was swaddled and on a side positioner (and even then I had to replug 4 million times per nap!).  Great attitude that you have...I had such a hard time not trying to make everything go a certain way.   

To give you all some hope - I really mean that it only gets easier.  Spirited babes are so fun!  Funny that I had no idea what I was in for though as my first was angel/spirited.  I really had no clue that all babies didn't fall asleep in the car, swing, stroller, on the go, on mom's chest, at the bottle, etc.  When I had Brooke I was at such a loss as she wouldn't fall prey to any AP (even if it was on purpose!!).  She would pretty much scream at everything as she was so easily OS and then got cumulatively OT!  At least if I have a 3rd I know what not to do!  LOL.  But, now at 7.5mos, she's so happy!  I have to laugh as she's into everything.  Driving her sister crazy trying to get at whatever she's playing with.  Sitting, crawling, creeping, rolling...you name it...she does it all like a maniac...as if the world would end if she didn't get to whatever it is in 2 seconds flat.  My first would sit in the pack n play for a long time, but not Brooke.  Brooke will push her face into the mesh and try to break out!  And now she's only wants to stand.  Desperately trying to pull up, but only makes it to her knees and sometimes one leg up.  With a little help she can stand holding the furniture forever and if you sit her down she screams as if you stabbed her!  I can't keep up and I think I'm in trouble when she starts walking!!!

[Fiona (Leah & Kians Mom)]

Robyn you have just described Kian to a t. He just will not be still. He is up 2.5 hours now and dressed an hour. all his clothes are wet and dirty so another complete change to be done, I change all clothes about 3 times a day he spits up a lot too with his reflux. Right now his head is wet with sweat from rushing round the place. But he is so funny, he comes after you laughing and has now started saying da da da da. I could never ap him either no matter how hard I tried and I tried very hard when he had colic 
With regards to sleep yes Kian seems to need little though I often wonder if he is over tired, he only does 10.5 or max 11 at night and about 2.5 during the day. And yes I think he will walk early and I know I am in trouble 
Linds I love your attitude, could you send some of it my way please? I still havent learned that I cannot control this little man, well control as in more routine, each day I say ok whatever happens happens but then I get so frustrated.  So as it looks like I found my new home I will be back more often, probably a night time poster as days tend to be just a bit busy 

[Mileshunt]

Hi,

thanks guys for the encouragement!  Yes I used to drive myself crazy scouring the boards for tips on A time and extending naps and nothing seemed to work!  I count my blessings that I get 45mins to myself each naptime but 1.5hrs would be nicer
  . Just spent 20mins coaxing her back to sleep after she woke up early because I really need another 5mins to myself (not sleeping very well - me not Laura(!!!) - so v tired).  Definitely getting blackout curtain linings and a blackout blind!! Short naps would be fine if she woke up happy!

Fiona - don't fret, I get fustrated too some days and Laura has reflux too.  IKWYM about the constant changes of clothes.  I think dealing with the reflux is more draining than the short naps.  Laura's not in pain/discomfort anymore but is still quite sicky despite being on gaviscon. She's desperate to get crawling but at the moment clothes & nappy are stopping her lol. At bathtime tummy time it's a different story!

Linds x

[sherry lynn]

I didn't know not being able to AP was a spirited thing. I have tried my hardest to AP my little spirited guy for the cat nap. He will not take a cat nap. He just cried for a whole half hour this afternoon while I tried to put him down. And my thought was great! Now he will be even more tired than he would have been if I just let him stay up. More days than not he is up from 3:30/4 until bed time. Which I tried for a 6:30 bedtime tonight. He was finally asleep at 7:10. The whole time I was trying to put him down I'm thinking, why can't you just sleep in a swing/stroller/car or on mom like other kids.  At least we don't have to work on breaking those habits, right. I'm trying so hard to come to terms with the lack of control we have in all this. I have come to realize that I'm not as flexible as I thought I was. I thought I was a flexible person. But most of that ill feeling comes from feeling like we've failed. I decided that I need to look at it like this, we haven't failed as long as we keep trying to keep them on the routine. As long as we try we are doing well. 

[JulieNG]

Hello,
I'm new to this board and just discovered my DS is spirited. He is 6 months old today and I thought he was textbook/touchy, but now I'm realizing he is spirited although he is happy alot! NAPS are a joke, he will lay in bed for 1 hour and just not sleep! It has been hard since day one and I kept thinking it would get better when he got older and it's only getting harder. I also have a 23 month old who was an angel baby, sleeping like a dream since day one. The only thing I have going for me is he goes to bed with no problem between 6-6:30 (so early cause he doesn't nap well) and wakes between 5-6 for a bottle, and goes right back to sleep. Any advice for getting him to nap better?? Thanks!

[sherry lynn]

JulieNG,
No advice here. I have my happy little spirited guy right next to me here. Talking away, he's 4 1/2 months and he's been up for 3 hours 
I guess I tried to put him down to early, and he just sat in his crib talking and talking. He got fussy once or twice and I went in, with the hopes of putting him down. Then I had to get in the shower because we have somewhere to go today.
Out of curiosity, after your LO goes back down in the morning, what time does he get up for the day.

[pbmom]

JulieNG - welcome!  The sprities ones sure are fun, but a handful too.  I also have a toddler (28 mos this Sunday) and boy do I go nuts some days.  Wow - 17 mos apart, eh?  And I thought mine were close at 20 mos apart!  It's so good now compared to when Brooke was younger (she'll be 8 mos on Sunday).  As for naps, it's like learning a magic trick and once you find the right thing, you'll be all set!  Lots of trial and error here.  Tell me, what's your winddown like?  Do you have the room darkened?  Paci, lovey, etc?  How much A time are you at?  Hope I can help!   

Sherrylnn - LOL that we were trying to AP while others were trying to avoid AP!  Brooke always screamed for the catnap.  She would go down for it, but boy was it rough.  I finally decided it just wasn't worth it as she would scream and be so annoyed for 20-30 min for just a 20-30 min sleep.  And it didn't seem to affect her when I dropped it as I pushed up bedtime.  Now she goes to bed at 6:30 (asleep by then I should say).  You so reminded me of me posting that Brooke would be up from 2:30/3:00 until bedtime if she didn't catnap and it was far too long at that point, so I just cut out the catnap at 6.5 mos and pushed bedtime.  She's so much happier now.  She literally asks for bed by starting to fuss at 6:15 and the minute we start putting on jammies she's fine as she knows where she's going.  Too cute. 

Fiona - OMG - too funny!  Kian does sound exactly the same!  Thankfully we've found each other here as I thought I'd go mad.  Esp. with my mother saying "I've never seen a baby that wouldn't rock to sleep."  I was like, well, you have now!  And my first fell prety to every AP with no effort.  She was AP'd to the max and that must be why I got the complete opposite this time.  Even dressing here these days is like climbing Mt. Everest.  She literally sits up, tries to crawl away, then stands up using my clothing as her pull up.  AHHHHHHH!!!!!  If I gave up she'd be crawling/standing around naked!  Always changing clothes here too.  No official reflux diagnosis, but P had it and I'm sure B does.  She's happy, so the paed said not to worry, but I think my new carpet is completely covered in spit up.  And the hiccups are just the best.  How great that he says "da da da."  Brooke has been saying something resembling "ma" and "mmmm" and the "ooooooo" is hilarious.  She pretty much copies Paige, so it should be interesting.   

As for his sleep...Brooke will be 8 mos on Sunday and is doing 11.5 at night (sometimes 12) and 3ish during the day.  She sometimes surprises me with more during the day but not often. 

Linds - I too wish I could be more lax in my attitude.  On the 6-12mo thread I have said over a million times that I'm going to "go with the flow"...yeah, right.  No, seriously, I had a major problem with that earlier, but I have learned that it's just not worth it.  If we have a crap nap or a crap day, I just adjust the day and roll with it.  Much easier.  That said, I am like a nut sticking with the routine though.  It's like I savor every little sleep bit they both take (Paige is spirited too, but more angel).  When I feel myself getting frustrated I just tell myself that we'll be fine.  She's so good at playing now and moving all about so she really entertains herself (or Paige does), so it's a lot better than when I would have to carry her around for the entire day if she got off track. 

Brooke is pulling up now.  Of course she did it for the first time in the crib.  She was awake yesterday morning and cooing and stuff, so I always leave her be (as it's usually earlier than I would prefer).  I peeked at the video monitor after a bit as she was starting to sound annoyed and there she was in her Grobag, standing...peering over the side of the crib gumming the crib rail and yelling for her binkies that she had thrown overboard.  She did it again at first nap today, so DH dropped the crib down one more level so she can no longer stand over the rail.  She's now confined, in jail, going nowhere...phew!  I think she'll be the type to try and climb out at 18 mos...please pray for me that she doesn't  

[JulieNG]

pbmom, yes, 17 months apart and I am crazy most of the time. I agree it is a lot better now than when my LO was a newborn. I was so tired I can barley remember! I have done soo much trial and error for naps its amazing. I still have not found the perfect thing. I have tried every A time imaginable and it seems he is different each day. When I find an A time that works and I think "oh, this is it" I try the next day and it doesn't work! My winddown isn't much b/c of my older DD. I usually just go in his room, change him, turn on white noise, shut blinds and either read book or hold him in my arms for a few minutes and then put him down. He used to take the paci but doesn't want it anymore. He sucks his thumb. I am basically at 1.5-3 hrs A time. It totally depends. In the morning if he wakes at 5:30, he'll go back to sleep till 7. If he wakes between 6-6:30 I'll keep him up for an hour to 1.5 hours. Sometimes he'll go right back to sleep at 6.  Between 1st and 2nd nap it's usually 2 hours if we are at home. Then sometimes I'll put him down and he will not sleep in crib for 1 whole hour and then I'm so crazy that I'll leave the house and he'll sleep. He is usually up from 3-3:30-6:6:30. He will only take a catnap if we are in the car. I have tried this nap since day one and he found late afternoon sleep.

Sherrylnn, When DS wakes between 5-6, I'll feed him and I always put him back down and he'll sleep for about an hour and a half more. If he wakes around 6-15-6:30 I keep him up cause he usually goes to bed bet 6-6:30 so I feel bad putting him back to sleep cause it's already been 12 hours.

[pbmom]

JulieNG - if he wakes early and eats, then when does he feed again?  Upon waking or 4 hrs from last feed?  I ask b/se I did do this with Brooke 2 times when she woke early a while back thinking it was a GS and she did eat, but then didn't want to eat well for the a.m. feed so we were all messed up.  I decided that I would leave her be if she wakes early unless she does the I NEED YOU cry and she has gone back to sleep on her own after I stopped rushing in. 

oops...B's up I'll write more later

[JulieNG]

pbmom,
Well today he woke at 5 and he drank 5 oz and then back to sleep till 8. That is rare, normally it would be till only 7ish and then I'd feed him at 7 and he would only eat around 3 oz or so. Do you think he really needs that feed or I should leave him and see what happens.

[Fiona (Leah & Kians Mom)]

Hi Ladies,
Have a rare quiet moment, dd on couch reading a "magazine" and ds sitting on play mat with a book , 2 angels  not.
 Julie With regards to the 5 am wake up, I find if I feed ds ( watered down bottle) then he really doesnt have an interest in his am bottle and then it really really messes up the day. Our wake up now seems to be stuck at 6 and I can usually leave him until about 6.30, yesterday he fell back asleep at 6.50 and woke 7.25. He just chats and gives out, yells a bit and then eventually it becomes an I need you cry.
We had a crap nap day yesterday, I put him down 2 hours after wake up cos the carpenter was supposed to come and I knew he wouldnt sleep if he was here, so after 15 mins of giving out he did sleep which shocked me, woke at 45 mins, ok, if he does that then he usually does a long pm nap, well he did an hour pm nap  So he was up from 2.45 pm until 7.20 pm and needless to say was unsettled until about 9.30. We had to go out yesterday afternoon and tbh by now I am so sick of staying home for naps and bedtimes that I decided to go regardless, it's not fair to dd either. He was fine though all afternoon so not sure if the unsettledness was ot or teeth, kind of think teeth. On a positive note I managed to get dd into preschool for 3 mornings a week, she was on a wait list and she starts April 6th, that is sooo far away though, costs a shocking amount of money too, or at least I think so.
Ok so Kian is under the table, think that's the end of my peace..........oh and just remembered he dropped his lunch time bottle yesterday, hope it's just a one off.

[sherry lynn]

Hi gals,
My LO one does the same things and 5 and/or 6. I'm so afraid to leave him be a lot though because he can only handle so little awake time in the morning. Currently about  1h20m (he is about 4 /12 months old). I sit there and think, oh he'll resettle, and then if he doesn't  I'm guaranteed a 36 min nap, which he may or may not be able to be resettled. He is driving me nuts with not being able to read his cues though. Last week the 1h20m time for the first A worked wonders. Yesterday and today he woke after 36 min. I don't know what that is all about. Yesterday morning he had slept well all through the night. Today, maybe his 5 wake/resettle made him tired. It took 30 min to get him back down, then he woke chatting at 6:20 and he started fussing at 6:40.
Pbmom, I'd love to hear some of the things you tried to find that magic. I'm hoping that he will get better at this nap thing at 6 months, but often I think I'm just going to have to learn how to wing it a lot better. I am still so thankful to BW because the melt downs at night are so fewer and far between, and even though he has trouble napping he has made improvements.