Waking in the Night Crying with eyes closed ???

[mnardella]

My son has been waking 1,2,3 times a night with a good cry out and when I go to check on him he is screaming with his eyes closed.   I can't seem to calm him with the shh/pat so then I do the PU/PD.  I have been doing this for over a month now and have not seen any change. 

Do you think if he is crying with his eyes closed I should just do the shh/pat and not PU/PD?  Even though the shhh/pat does not seem to work maybe if I do it for 30-1hr he will stop but will still know I am there?

Im wondering if he is just getting spoiled with the PU PD?

[lcpopelka]

Can you post your daytime schedule?  That's probably where the issue is at...

[momofclaire]

It seems that often, crying with eyes closed, means that the baby is tired and wants to go back to sleep but it unable to do so. This could be due to overtiredness, discomfort or pain. Please post your routine because as PP mentioned there might be something there that needs adjusting.

[rob1lu2]

Also, if you tell us how old he is, that helps too!

[mnardella]

Sorry...I forgot that one very important piece of the puzzle.  He is 5 1/2 months, but was born 6 weeks early, so he is 4 months adjusted.

I just started moving from 3hr to 4 hour easy, this is the third week of adjusting.  He is has been very unpredictable with naps, sometimes going down for 2 hours and sometimes only 50 minutes.  But for the last 2 days this has been his schedule.

7:00 (Wake even if still asleep)
7:15 (Cereal and Bananas he has been eating a whole banana along with 2 oz of cereal)
8:00 3-5 oz of formula
9:00-11:00 Nap

11:00 Eat 5-6 oz of formula
11:30-12:30 play
12:30-1:00 wind down
1:00-3:00 Nap

3:00 Eats 5-6 oz of formula
3:30-4:30 Play
5:00-5:45 Cat Nap
5:45 Activity

6:30-6:45 Eat 6 oz

7:00-7:15 bath, books

7:30 a sleep

Should I be cluster feeding him at 3,5 and 7?  I wonder if he is getting enough food?  Although when he wakes at night I don't feed him I just try and calm him down.

[Becca's Mom]

Sometimes our daughter was sleeping while crying.  We were actually waking her up by rushing in too soon.  You may have already done this, but you can see what happens if you leave him alone for a while...

Amy

[lcpopelka]

Going from 5:45pm to 7:30pm on only 45 min of sleep seems a bit long to me (I know because my own son is having the same issues).  You may want to try moving his bedtime up 15 minutes and see what happens.  How long ago did you start solids?

[rob1lu2]

I would agree with PP. The 45 minute catnap is just supposed to stave off the exhaustion. You should probably be putting him to bed at 7pm. Any particular reason you are waking him at 7am? It seems like he's OT - especially the days he only naps 50 minutes - and he wants to sleep more but can't.

What do you do on the days he wakes early from naps? Do you put him to sleep for the night earlier? How often does he wake early from his naps?

On days my girls wake early from their naps they have gone to sleep as early as 5:30 for the day. Yes, you heard that right, 5:30pm. My husband hates it b/c he doesn't get to see the girls, but it improves their overall night sleep and their nap sleep the next day. We've only had to do that one or two times for them to catch up on their sleep, and that sounds like what your Little Guy needs.

[momofclaire]

Based on that routine I would feed him when he wakes from the cat nap at 5:45 and then feed again at 6:45 and get him to bed no later than 7:15.  I understand why you are waking him, in order to maintain the routine but if you do that you really need to make sure he gets good naps and gets to bed a little eariler.

[mnardella]

He started on Solids a month ago and is now up to 3/4 of a banana and 2-3 oz of cereal at his morning feed.  And then he gets a bottle with 3-5 oz depending on what he wants.  My doctor had me start earlier with solids since he was waking so much at night. 

I wake him at 7 AM because I guess I thought that is what im supposed to do to get him on a schedule?  Maybe I am confused?  I do have to say, most of the time he wakes at 6:45 and only once or twice a week I have to wake him.  Yesterday he had a 2 hour nap, A 1 1/2 hour nap and a 50 min. catnap.  Which I thought was really good but I had to actually wake him from his catnap and he seemed pretty sleepy.  Not sure why since he seemed to sleep well for his naps that day.

I will try by moving up his bed time and see if that helps.  I have a hard time getting 6 ozs of food down him by 7:00 because he monkeys around and it almost seems like he does not want it.  But only 18-20 oz a day just makes me think he is totally going to wake up starving.

So I will try putting him to bed earlier and also if he misses his naps get him to bed really early.  But say if one day I put him to bed at 5:30 because he did not nap well, Would I try and wake him at 10 or so and give him a full feeding so that he is caught up on food for the day?  How would you handle that?  Also if they wake early crying do you just assume its hunger since they went to bed so early and feed them?   Let me know how you would handle it.   Just want to be ready just incase I have to do it this weekend.

Thank You Ladies for all your insight!  Its so nice to have someone to talk to about this and bounce things off of otherwise you just go crazy what-if-ing yourself to death!   

[Bryony]

Have just had a look thorugh the thread - and for what it's worth my thoughts are that he needs to go to bed a bit earlier - 7pm or 7:15pm if he is getting up at 7am. Personally I would wake at 7am to keep things consistent, but get him to bed a bit earlier.

And if you have had a really dodgy nap day, either try and get in another catnap (with bedtime slightly later if needed) or a much earlier bedtime.   In answer to your Q - if a much earlier bedtime means he misses a feed then yes I would feed when he next wakes up if you think he's hungry.

do you do a dream feed?

Yes I know what you mean about the what-if - ing - my brain used to go round and round in circles....

Bryony

[rob1lu2]

I agree with Byrony, move his bedtime up. Even if it's to 6:30 or 7:00. We usually let our girls wake, both in the morning and for their naps, whenever they want. I figure if they are sleeping more it's because they need the sleep. I understand why you might keep the catnap short but I've let it go as long as 1 hour and 15 minutes without it affecting their bedtime. My DH STILL thinks that if they wake from their catnap at 5:15, that they won't be tired for bed at 6:30. Then 6:10 rolls around and they are losing their minds and I have to stop myself from "I told you so-ing".

My girls will be 7 months on Monday and my ped says they need to have a minimum of 20oz of "milk" per day. And that's for 7 month olds! So I don't think your guy is going to wake up starving, IMO. My really fussy eater ate 16 oz yesterday, woke up at 11:40, and I was able to soothe her back to sleep in 13 minutes without feeding her. But if he does wake early, or if you are worried - go in at 10 and give him a bottle. Just to be on the safe side.

As for the what if-ing - I still do that! I don't think it ever goes away!

Let us know how it goes!

Lu

[mnardella]

Hello Rob1L02 and Bryony-

Thank you for all your help and suggestions.   So here is where I am at.

On Monday I put my son to bed at 5:45 and he slept until 5:00 AM played in his crib (no crying) until 5:45 and then I gave him his pacifier and he went back to sleep until 7:15 AM.  So that was Fantastic!  Then on Tuesday he had a great nap in the morning for 2hrs and 15 minutes but his afternoon nap was only 45 minutes.  I tried to put him down for a cat nap but he was not having it.  So I did his bed time routine early and he was a sleep by 6:15.  But then he woke at 4AM WIDE AWAKE and Never went back to sleep.  No crying or anything just playing in the crib.   So then I just was not sure how to handle his day since he was actually awake for 3 hours (possibly closing his eyes here and there) and we did not start his day until 7:00 because he was not even hungry until then.   So then he goes down for his nap, a little early and only sleeps for 1 hour and his second nap was 50 minutes long.  So I tried to get him to take a catnap and he finally fell asleep but only for 30 minutes.   He was then put down to bed by 7PM.  Last night he woke a few times in the night playing in his crib, not even crying.  And then was awake at 5AM and never went back to sleep.  So I know his sleep was totally interupted and not a good night sleep at all.

So basically I'm thinking I need to keep putting him to bed before 6PM since that is what worked best.  BUT I'm so worried about him waking and just playing in his crib.   I don't use a monitor so to be honest I never "really" know how long he has been up playing when I realize he is awake.   I know I'm very very lucky that he is not crying when he wakes but it still really concerns me that he is only getting 12 hours of sleep a day and some of the night time sleep is interupted.  And its obvious at night that he is tired because the happy chill baby that he is becomes very agitated and frustrated with me, so I know he needs more sleep.

Any suggestions on the waking up playing?  He also does that with his naps...wakes up after an hour and plays.   Also how do I handle the schedule when he has been up since 4AM even though he stays in his crib  until 7AM.   Do I feed him and put him right back down to sleep since he has been up for 3 hours?

I'm so at a loss because he was the perfect scheduled baby until I went to a 4 hour EASY and now its all out the window.

[rob1lu2]

I know you are feeling frustrated, but it sounds like you are making progress! It may not feel like it, but you are!

One of my girls wakes up in the middle of the night and has a crib party. I've talked about this with the girls in my BC, and around your son's age,  many of the babies were doing that. We all said, as long as he isn't crying, just let it be. My daughter will be up 45-60min sometimes. I look at it this way, I've slept through it sometimes and have only heard about it from my husband the next day. So if I didn't know it went on, I wouldn't adjust for it. Does that make sense? I say just ignore him until he cries for you. Then when you go and get him, that's when you start your day. Read his signs and put him down accordingly. Or if it happens in the middle of the night, soothe him. I know for my girls' first A time, they aren't able to stay up very long anyway. Only just started staying up two full hours in the last week. So don't pressure him to go the full 2 hours at first if he can't. Just remember to read his signs for his first A/S time and then the rest of the day will be adjusted.

I know you are concerned that he's only getting 12 hours of sleep per day. When you say he's agitated at night, what do you mean? For how long? Starting when? By what? For example, is he agitated when you are starting to put his pj's on? At 4:30 every night? During his bath?  My girls start to get crankety during dinner. The relax during the bath, but get upset when taken from the bath and when I put their pjs on. From there we still have the bottle, and book before bed. They are fine during their bottle, sometimes crankety during the book and grateful to go to bed. It isn't ALWAYS like that, but I know it's pretty regular for us. I chalk it up to the end of the day -- what they call The Children's Hour (or what I call the Meltdown). They've been up, playing, seeing things, practicing skills, eating, watching the dogs, etc. By the end of the day they are over it and just want to crash. They act that way whether they have had good naps or not. One has nothing to do with the other.  I don't know if that's any consolation to you.

We start the baths for our girls at 5:30. It seems ridiculously early, but even when they have gone to bed at 7pm, and woken up the next day at 6:30am, they still seem to prefer the earlier bedtime of 6ish. This morning they woke up at 5:40    , and last night we put them to bed a 6:30. Kept them up right now until 8:12, and hopefully they will sleep until 9:45.

When he wakes early from his naps and plays,what do you do? Both of my girls will do this and I just ignore them until they start crying for me. 75% of the time they fall back asleep.

Let us know how you get on!

Lu

[mnardella]

Crib Party...that is Hilarious!  That is exactly what my son does but its more like 2-3 hours!  Its crazy!   I seem to be a TOTAL light sleeper these days and always hear him even though I do not use a monitor and he is also a level below us.   So as he is having his little party in the crib I am awake worrying that right when I close my eyes he is going to cry for me.  I know...its stupid but I just can't help it.   Or I worry for just the fact that he is not getting his sleep.  Then when I do go to feed him at 7AM because he does not start crying until then, he looks exhausted.   I've tried to feed him sooner and get him started earlier and he wants nothing to do with food. In fact its sometimes hard to get him to eat at 7:00.  I'm at the point where I am feeding him and then pretty much putting him down for his nap.  Which I really don't like because I dint want him to rely on the feed before a nap.  But that is the only way to get him to eat these days since he is totally messed up during the day.

Ok regarding his frustration.  It sounds identical to your girls.  Calm in the bath, frustrated when putting on the lotion and PJ's,  Sometimes annoyed with eating also (pushing the bottle away but then crying when I stop feeding) And then reading, often he will read and then just start squirming and grunting which I take as a que to just put him down.   When he starts those actions with his bath, I often wonder if I'm starting his wind down to late and am I missing the window.  But hearing from you, its sounds completely normal and its just the "witching hour" 

When he wakes from his nap and is just playing I dont even go in to check on him and I let him keep playing until I hear from him.

Today I am feeling that he is beyond OT, almost drugged and whacked out.   Which makes me so sad cause I know how bad he wants to sleep and he just can't sleep for longer that 30 minutes today.   Have you ever had a situation were you felt like you just need to stay home and just let the baby sleep any time they need to?  And completely through the whole schedule out the window for a day or two?

If not, how would you suggest getting him to catch up on sleep?

Thank you so much for all your help.  Its nice to know my baby is not the only one, knowing your babes do some of the same things really makes me feel more at ease.