Short nights & super EWs...worried for DD!

[Hadley12]

I'm starting a new post as things have gotten worse and I need to clear my head and start from scratch. DD2 will be 14 mos a week from tomorrow. We have been dealing with super EWs (4:00am-5:15am) and short nights (9.5-10h) since about 10 mos. She's always been an exceptional napper. EWs got better (5:45-6:00am) for about 3 weeks when I shortened her AM nap to 1h. After two weeks of that I shortened it to 45m which is where we are now. It seems no matter when I put her to bed (I have tried as late as 8pm and as early as 6pm), she will only do 9.5-10h which makes me so worried for her b/c I know it isn't healthy and she should have at least 11h. She's only done 11h straight through once in her life.

What else should I tell you? She STTN about 95% of the time and if she does wake I only need to go in and lie her down and walk back out. She has 3 molars that are about 1/3 of the way cut and one that looks like it's about to cut. She also has a left of center bottom tooth that just cut. I would think it might be the teeth causing the EW but she wakes for the morning happy and quiet about 95% of the time as well. Very occasionally she'll wake crying at 4:30 but will immediately quiet down and just lie there and cuddle her lovie. She's very happy throughout the day, naps very well and is only fussy in the afternoon just before dinner. She falls asleep by herself 100% of the time.

Here's where we are now:

Wake: 4:30am-5:15am
Nap1: 9:00am-9:45am (I always have to wake her)
Nap2: 1:15pm-3:15pm (I have to wake her about 50% of the time if she goes past 2hrs; sometimes she takes up to 30m to fall asleep so the nap goes a bit later but I never let her sleep past 4:00)
Bedtime: 7:00pm (sometimes a bit earlier or later depending on PM nap but usually 3.5 - 4h post PM nap; almost always goes right to sleep)

I have also tried limiting PM nap to 1.5h and it didn't seem to help, only caused NWs and OT...

TIA! Caitlin
 

[LucySol]

hi Caitlin.sorry things are still rough for you.Did you try doing the one nap like you mentioned in your other post? i hope you get some help and get this cracked!!
Lucy
xx

[Hadley12]

Thanks Lucy. I haven't tried the 1 nap yet because she's up so early. A bit of the chicken or the egg thing, you know?

I did try limiting AM nap and early bed yesterday with disastrous results:

wake: 5:10 am
nap1: 9:20 - 9:50 (woke her at 30 min mark)
nap2: 1:25 - 3:00 (put down at 12:55...took 40 min to fall asleep...OT??)
in bed: 6:00 pm (trying to combat OT)
asleep: 7:00 pm (cried and rolled for a whole hour!)
NW: 11:45 pm (hasn't done this in ages)
wake: 5:00 am

 

[LucySol]

she sounds well OT doesnt she.That must have something to do with the EW.I dont know if its counterproductive but i wonder if you could reduce her A for her 1st nap right down and then maybe she would sleep a bit longer.Even squeeze a 3rd nap in if you have too,or can you extend her naps with some AP? and i wouldnt wake her from any of her naps while she is so OT.i think you really need to get her out of the OT cycle anyway you can.Maybe reducing her A time for all her naps? just throwing out ideas,hopefully someone else will jump in here too.i know with my DD anything less than a 45 min nap in the am and she is a bear!! she does a 3.45A first thing,i wake her after 45 mins and then we get a 3.20 A and a good 1.5 maybe longer nap,then an 11/11.5 hr night.

have you tried leaving her when she wakes early? i went thru 6 months of EW and it drove me nuts! i decided in the end to get tough as we were all suffering from exhaustion and it had to stop!! i did WIWO at the EW and she was not happy and got really cross but i stuck to my guns.it took 3 days each day her waking but resettling herself better each day.By the 4th day we had cracked it.She does wake at 6/6.30 now but from 7pm the night before and to be honest i will take that gladly after the 5 ish wakings for so long!!
i know you have an older child so i will say if you do choose to do that be prepared for them to be woken for a few days.We did it at the weekend when my ds didnt have to be up for school.
hth xx

[Hadley12]

thanks for replying lucy. i went with your advice and decided to let her sleep at least 1.25h for her AM nap and of course she woke from her AM nap at the 40m mark on her own.  she will usually extend her PM nap on her own. sometimes she'll sit up after 1h and then lie back down and go to sleep for another hour. if i let her i think she would take 2, 2h naps and then have an 8h night! she loves her naps. that's why i initially had to cut the AM to 45m/1h. she would sleep sometimes up to 3h in the AM if I let her. i think she was using them to extend her nights. it worked for a while but it's hard to say if that was just a break in teething or not.

wi/wo isn't really an option for the EWs because she isn't upset at all. she'll sometimes cry out initially and i'll go in and settle her for a second and leave and she'll lie there happily until 6. i just can't figure it out! seems if it was OT or teeth she'd be in there sobbing. 

[hdgmom]

It sounds like your dd has programed herself to wake early and just needs your help to reprogram herself to wake later. It also sounds like she is overtired, staying awake from 2pm to 8 pm might be way too long for her to handle, then she can't settle and stay settled. I would try 2 things. First, don't get her up when she wakes at 4am. Decide what time would be ok for her to wake at, say 6am, then keep her in bed until 6am. Don't go to her until she cries, then use whaterver sleep training method you are using to keep her in her bed until time to get up at 6am. My dd (now 15mo) has had several periods where she wakes at 4am or 4:30 and I found that if i let her alone, she would play by herself, sometimes for an hour, then go back to sleep on her own and sleep until 7am. Even now, like this morning, she woke at 5:37am and I let her alone until 6am, she played happily with her blanket until i got her up.

The second thing I would do is shorten the time between naps so that she is not awake for more than 3.5hours, so that means she is asleep after  3.5 hours, if she wakes at 5:10 then she should be asleep no later than 8:40am. My dd was asleep at 8:45 this morning. I would also let her sleep as long as she wants so that she is napping for 3 to 3.5hours a day. That's really not too much daytime sleep for a dd her age. I would also make bedtime earlier, in bed at 7pm if needed. My dd usually wakes from her pm nap around 3:30 or 4pm and was having a hard settling for her last nursing at 8pm, it would take her 40 min to settle and nurse so she wasn't getting into bed until after 9pm. then I started bathtime earlier at 7 and nursing at 7:30pm and now she is in bed and sleep at 8pm and sleeps til 5:30 or 6am. I realized that I was keeping my dd up too long after her pm nap, staying up for 4 hours after her pm nap was just too long and she couldn't settle at bedtime,  and so your dd may also need an earlier bath and bedtime. If she wakes at 2pm, she may need to be in bed at 6pm until you can get her am wakes later so that she wakes later from her pm nap.

Remember this will not last forever, it may last a long time but it won't be forever. You are doing everything you can to help her and that makes you a great mom. good luck.

[Hadley12]

thanks for your post hdgmom and for saying i am a great mom. in the thick of the sleep mess we feel so badly for our los and feel as if we're failing them in a way because we can't figure out what they need.

i do think you're right, that she's waking out of habit for the most part. i do try to leave her until 6 but hasn't seemed to help yet. very rarely she will go back to sleep for a bit after i settle her at 4:30.

her usual A time after PM nap isn't 2pm - 8pm. it's more like 3:30/4:00pm - 7:30pm. last night i put her down at 6pm and she rolled around for an hour. i do keep her up until 9am most mornings though so maybe the OT from that and then a 45m nap is messing things up. i will try the 3.5h A time in the morning and also let her nap longer and see. thanks again.