What am I doing wrong?! Please Help!!

[momwith2boys]

Ok, here we go! My ds2 is 3mos old. things are sooo messed up, I don't even know where to begin! I have done bw since day one, at least as much as we could with his reflux. These are my "issues"...

1. Most of the time he only takes 45 min naps. Typically he will not go back to sleep when I try to do shush/pat to help him transition. Sometimes he will be up for about 25 mins and go back down for another 45min nap. Though, sometimes he will not and then we start EASY all over again with a feed and a short A time that isn't very stimulating so he doesn't get OS.

2. He is still waking 2x in the night. Typically 2/3am and 4/5am. We do a df between 930-1030 depending on what his day looked like and where we ended up that day. He eats pretty well during those night wakings. While he is eating though, he squirms and passes lots of gas. I am thinking that it's the gas that is actually waking him, and then he decides he wants to eat. I have tried all the remedies for gas, and none of them make a difference.

3. I think he is getting ready to move to a 3 1/2 hour routine, but I don't know that that is the best idea since he is still waking 2x at night. we are currently on a 3 hr routine and he is doing fine, but I don't think he is real hungry at 3 hrs. He eats well, but I think he would eat better at 3 1/2 hrs.

Any ideas? My ds1 is 3 and has LOTS of energy. I'm exhausted and ready to help my baby sttn. I know sleep begets sleep, but how do I get us out of this nasty cycle esp with the short naps??

Thanks!!

[momwith2boys]

well, he actually wakes up pretty happy. I can tell he is still tired, though. Plus he can only stay awake another 25mins or so before he get way OT. I think he is just having a hard time transitioning in his sleep, but I can't figure out how to help him extend it!

[~Sara~]

Hi there!  Could you post how his day went for either yesterday or today?  That will probably help shed some light on what's going on  

To give some of my thoughts (a mod will probably be along soon, though):

1) Is it possible that your LO goes down for his naps undertired...meaning, is it possible that he isn't getting enough A time?  I know that my DS's naps started getting more out of whack when I kept him on a routine that was "too young" for him, developmentally speaking.  I also think this might be the case for your LO because of the 2 45 minute naps comprising nap time...what you could be seeing is that he's UT for the first nap, but as the day goes on, he gets OT so that by the time bedtime rolls around, he's so exhausted that he doesn't know what to do with himself (erg, been there, done that, too!).

Also, it might be that your LO is having difficulty transitioning through to the next sleep cycle during nap time.  Again, my DS has had horrible naps until just about 2 weeks ago when we finally got it *just* right...we made his room really, really dark; had a fan going for some white noise, and then we'd also go into his room at the 30 minute mark and place our arms on him to hold him through the jolts (and sometimes, we'd still shield his eyes bc there was a tiny bit of light that would allow him to look at us).  DH and I would literally spend 75% of his nap time in his room to get him used to going right into the next sleep cycle.

2) Re: the NWs...it could very well be because of his reflux.  I don't have much advice to offer on that, per se.  But, if he REALLY is hungry at those times, I would just keep feeding him.  I've read somewhere (can't remember if it was on these boards or in one of Tracy's books) that babies with reflux often try to make up calories at night...could be what's going on there.  And I'll try to find that quote for you.

If you think his night wakings are really habitual wakings, then you can try the wake to sleep method.  You go into his room about an hour before he normally wakes, wake him up enough to where he stirs, but not so that he actually wakes.  Then, you shh/pat or soothe in whatever way you normally resettle, him back to sleep.  That resets their internal clock.  I've done it before when DS started waking habitually for his DF--it broke the habit in just two nights.

3) It's possible that your LO is ready to up his routine.  If he's less than 3.5 months, then I would say that he's probably not quite ready for a 3.5h EASY...but I don't know your baby like you do

When the time comes for transitioning him, here's a great board to do it gradually:
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=120362.0

This board might be helpful, too:
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=63161.0

You're not doing anything wrong, hon.  Please don't beat yourself up over it.  I know you must have your hands full with controlling reflux and having a 3 year old.  Just hang in there...things will get better over time.  But in the meantime, I hope we'll be able to find some tips that give you and your LO relief now

*hugs*

[sherry lynn]

Wow tersaseda - you did an awesome job helping this mom   You covered everything. I'll wait to hear the response before I see if I need to add anything.

[*Liz*]

The only thing I can think to add is to ask whether the reflux is medicated and fully under control?

It is not uncommon for a lo with reflux to short naps, and if they are uncomfortable it is harder for them to transition the sleep cycles.

[momwith2boys]

Yes, he is on meds for his reflux and it is pretty much under control. Gas is really more of an issue for him than the reflux now that we are on a good med!

Here is what a "typical" day looks like.

7:30 E
8:30 begin wind down asleep after 15-20mins
9:30 wakes
10:00 sleep (sometimes this doesn't happen and we just have A until next feed)
10:30 E
11:30 begin wind down asleep after 15-20mins
12:30 wakes
1:30 E
2:00 sleep (usually over tired at this point cuz he has only slept 45 mins since 10:30)
2:45 wakes
3:30 sleep
4:30 E
6:00 sleep
7:00 wakes
7:30 E
8:30 wind down asleep w/in 10 mins typically
10:00/10:30 df
2:00/3:00 ish (changes every night) feed....gas pains/passes gas....back to sleep easily
4:00/5:00ish (changes every night) feed.....gas pains/passes gas.....back to sleep easily.
He typically wakes around 7 or 7:30 to start the day again! 

As far as the UT, I did consider that. I still really can't decide if maybe that is it. How do I know? He shows he cues after about 1 hour of A time. He is difficult to get down when he is OT, so I'm cautious about getting him down within the window. should I try to work up to a longer A time or just for the first nap try to go 2hrs and see if he sleeps any longer?

for the nw's, I do think he is actually hungry, b/c he takes a good feeding. I just think he is waking from the gas pains and then once he is awake he feels hungry. I don't know if that makes sense to anyone else, but when I wake in the middle of the night, I'm hungry! Even if that's not WHY I woke up. I don't know, maybe I'm grasping at straws at this point!

He is less than 3.5 mos, he is actually just 3mos today! I think you're right that he is a little young to extend his feeds. I think I need to just concentrate on the naps and nw before I start extending him.

I have to say, I am soooo very thankful for your feedback! It's nice to have people to troubleshoot with who understand my goals. I have a lot of people around me who advocate CIO and AP practices, so thank you!!

[~Sara~]

Hey--just noticed that you're in Missouri!  DH and I just moved from St. Louis.  Total opposite sides of the state, but just thought that was nifty

Disclaimer: Everything I'm saying is assuming that reflux is under control and is well enough managed that it doesn't upset his routine.

Thanks for posting your LO's routine!  Looking at it, it does look like he starts the day UT and then ends up OT.  For example, he's been up for ~2.5h at bedtime.

I would say that you should try and extend those A times a bit.  Most 3 month olds are at doing about 1h25-1h30 A times.  Your LO might need a bit less or a bit more...you'll know your baby best   But I would REALLY work on getting there over the next few days.

Try to extend the first A time by 10-15 minutes.  And really work on that first nap.  Just do this one EASY cycle at a time   Or, if you feel confident that your LO can do it, you could just try to make the full jump???  It's a fine line to walk between perfect timing and OT.  Give the first A increase a couple of days, and then move onto the next one.  Does that makes sense?  LOL, or you could be a daredevil like me, and start the day and just up everything...I did that with DS *cough*.

As far as the UT, I did consider that. I still really can't decide if maybe that is it. How do I know?

You'll know if he's UT because he'll nap pretty much like he is for that first nap: he sleeps for one sleep cycle and is then not tired enough to go into the next (he'll look happy then, but it will catch up to him by day's end).  He might be showing cues an hour into his A time, but judging by his naps, he's still got some A time left in him

should I try to work up to a longer A time or just for the first nap try to go 2hrs and see if he sleeps any longer?

See how the longer A times affect him, and then if it seems like it's too much, scale back a bit.  My bet is, though, that he'll respond well to those longer A times.  Just a precaution, naps still might be tough as this is the age where nap problems really start to creep up.  If he's waking up during his nap and is fussy and crying, get him back to sleep.  If he's happy and cooing, try to get him back to sleep, too.

Re: the NWs and gas...it could very well be the case.  Is he breastfed?  If so, then it's more likely that he really is hungry.  As I mentioned in a previous post, if you think these are becoming habitual and that he just expects to be fed back to sleep, then try some of those preventative measures.

Okay!  *whew*  I think I've written you a novel!   Give these things a shot and keep us posted!  Good luck and lots of *hugs.*  You'll do great!

P.S. If anyone sees something that I wrote that needs to be corrected, by all means feel free (I'm not infallible...plus it's almost midnight).

[sherry lynn]

If you are super scared of OT you can even up the A time by just 5 minutes. Sometimes that makes all the difference. It takes longer to up all of them that way, but if your LO is touchy to increases in A time then that might do it

[~Sara~]

Oh, something else I thought of:

should I try to work up to a longer A time or just for the first nap try to go 2hrs and see if he sleeps any longer?

You should work on BOTH the A time and the naps simultaneously.  Since you're trying to get him on a longer EASY routine, you don't want to just increase the nap time without extending the A times.  If you do that, I can pretty much guarantee that he'll start waking in the night, just babbling and cooing away, in order to make up for the A time his body needs.  Before we upped Aaron's A times, we noticed him continually waking at night for at least 1.5h...basically, 1 day A time.  We then increased his A time and voilą!  The nighttime babbling disappeared

[sherry lynn]

Same happened for us. We were getting long night wakings and increasing the A time took care of that. You definitely do not want him sleeping longer with out longer A times. So yes, up that first A time. Do not increase it by too much or he will get OT. Your goal is to be around 2 hours by the time he is 16 weeks. You have time. The max amount you want to increase it by is 15 min. You could increase it by as little as 5.

So try about 15 min for 3 days on that first A time. See how that goes. Then you can work on increasing the next A time, and so forth.

[momwith2boys]

First off.....thank you!

Here is what today looked like. I increased his A time quite a bit today. Maybe too much? He had a hard time settling down for naps, though we did have one nap that was 70mins! I'm just ecstatic that he slept past the 45min mark! (even once)  Anyway, I thought I would show you what today was like with specifics and see what you all thought. I will start by saying, last night was a bad night for him. He was up a lot, so we started the day not quite as rested as he usually is!

6:45 Eat (he ate as though it was a df and fell asleep right after. I went ahead and let him sleep for a while. I know this isn't ideal, but he had such a rough night that I decided to let him catch up a bit before we started the day.) 
7:30 A
8:45 start wind down (was pretty fussy and more difficult than usual to settle. maybe OT from the night?)
9:00 S
9:15 wakes crying did shush/pat back to sleep
10:15 E
12:00 S (also more difficult to settle)
12:30 wakes happy. He was content playing in his bed. I was hoping he would fall back asleep (wishful thinking), but he didn't so I went ahead and fed him b/c it was so close.
1:00 E
2:00 Sleep (again, fussy and difficult to settle)
3:15 wake woo hoo!! 
3:30 E
4:30 S (Ok, I'm a broken record! again, difficult to settle and quite fussy. I'm guessing he was pretty OT/OS at this point)
5:30 wakes up....not crying, but def needed to be sleeping. I tried to shush/pat back to sleep, but it just wasn't convincing him!
6:30 E
8:00 S
8:30 woke up
9:00 E

I am planning to TRY to do a DF at 10:30. I want to try to tank him up a bit, b/c he didn't eat much at his last couple feedings. I doubt he will eat, but I think it's worth a try!

Do I count his wind down time into his A time?

Yes, he is breastfed. To be honest, I can't figure out if his wakings are habitual or not. typically he eats for about 10 mins during the day. At night when he wakes he will eat for about 5-7 mins and then fall asleep. So, it's about 1/2 to 3/4 of a regular day time feeding. He also wakes at different times. Not always 2:45, but sometimes 2:00, 2:30,3:00....though it is typically within that 2:00-3:00 hour. What do you think?

Oh, that's cool that you are from STL! I bet you are enjoying the weather better in TX, it's getting pretty cold here already!