Anyone Want to Talk about the 2-1 Transition? Thread #10

[All4Finn]

Hi there Stephanie, I am certainly no expert but I think you might need to cut back his A time after his PM CN.  Maybe he can't quite do 3 hours on a 30 min nap?  Especially with a long middle A.  I have heard that this is sometimes the way.

I definitely think he's OT with NW and EW.  Curious to see what the others say...

I have to say (fingers crossed) that things are going better for us and naps - thanks to the ladies on Naps thread.  After a short AM nap he really wants to do his PM nap...he asks for it.  And the ride to bedtime after that nap is nice and smooth.  We were able to have some quality play time last night - playing Clipo together.  It's nice - rather than a screaming OT maniac child where I am just counting down the minutes to bedtime.

[okinawamama]

well, I am trying the short am route today because I had lunch plans with friends and had to wake Ambrose after 45 minutes. I did put him down earlier than normal, which I had planned to do regardless because maybe the 1hr20ish minute nap I'm getting is OT? Anywho, so I woke him at 45 minutes, how long should I wait until I lay him down again? I was thinking head into the room around 3hr05 minutes and do a nice long wind down and watch for cues. The last time we had a 45 minute nap I did 3.15 A and got another UT nap, so hope that doesn't happen again (however, the 45minX2 nap day was the best night sleep we've had in a long while)

[okinawamama]

Well, that didn't work.  Of course he woke up at the 35 minute mark, OT I'm positive. I went in for the wind down at the 3hr A mark and he was asleep by the 3hr 15 min mark. The reason I put him down at that time was because when put down earlier than that (just 4 days ago), he woke UT @ the 45 minute mark. SO frustrating. THe same thing never ever ever works with this kid and after 10 months of it, I'm loosing my mind. I'd love for 5 days (our record is 4) to be somewhat similar. The 2-1 transition has been the closest we've ever been to a schedule, how sad !

 He will not be going to bed until 6:45 at the earliest, although OT, I think that he'll wake early regardless and any earlier than that means I'm doing bed time on my own, and today, I just don't feel up to it

[All4Finn]

Stephanie I feel your pain which is why my post on Naps is helpful - when you have an inconsistent kid, you need a changeable plan. 

I would say that it was defo an OT nap, I think if he's doing a long AM A time (I think you said over 4 hours?) and then you woke him at 45 mins, he needs a shorter middle A.  I probably would have aimed for asleep by 3 hours, maybe even less.  Remember too he is used to getting more sleep at that time of day normally having a long AM nap.

Lucky that he makes up sleep with his nights so hopefully you will get back on track tomorrow.  Hugs!

And I hear you on the 2-1 - it's the first time I feel like A times are actually tweakable with him.

[okinawamama]

Sorry about the frustrated/emotional post yesterday. Today is a new day and I feel great.....partly because I put my LO to bed last night at 6:45, and it's 7:05 and he's still asleep SO happy, yet SO confused. We had a bad nap day and a good night...whaaat?

Here was yesterday
5:15-6:15NW
A:7:15
S: 10:45-11:30 (had lunch plans with friends so put down early so I could at least get 45 minute in him)
S: 2:45-3:15
Bed: 6:45
NW: 10:30 & 3 but they only lasted long enough to wake me out of my sleep, but once I was awake the crying had stopped so max 5seconds long.



 

[All4Finn]

Yeah we had a bad day yesterday too.  Did a 40 min AM nap but then offered the PM nap too late and got a 1 hr OT nap.  Then he was awake at 3:26 this morning, very upset.

Some days you really feel like throwing in the towel, but then realize that you can't. 

It's great that Ambrose will self-regulate and compensate with night sleep.  I wish Finn would start doing that.  Otherwise our days are all over the map.

[Flightmommy]

Hi Ladies!
  I'm running into a problem that i'm sure some of you have or will during this trying 2-1 period. We are on the long am/short pm program and it's been working quite nicely. DS does 11 hour nights and 13 hour days and I usually have to wake him from his naps, otherwise he would just keep going...i know, it's sounds great, but if he gets any more than 2.5 h total day sleep, we get some wild and crazy 2 hour crib parties in the middle of the night, so unfortunately, i really have to control his day sleep.
  Anyways, we've been having later and later catnaps, which are now running into and past 5pm!! I guess this is bound to happen when the LO's are able to do longer A's. The problem is that he is beyond miserable when woken from this nap (i've been keeping it at 20-30-min max) and i'm guessing it feels more like night sleep to him, as it's just so late in the day. I can't really cut it out completely cause he's not ready for 1 nap yet, but our bedtime is now getting later and later because of this 5pm ish catnap. He's about to turn 1 next week and we've had a couple of one nap day trials lately....the trial day itself went well, but then we suffer some side effects in the following days....EW's and crib parties, which tell me he's just not ready.
  Here's what today looked like:
7:40am awake (bedtime last night 8:30pm, again..because of late catnap!!)
11:40-1:20 nap (had to wake him)
5:20-5:40pm catnap (will wake him from this one too)
bedtime will probably be around 8:30, will aim for earlier, but he's just lay there and play no matter what
  Any ideas on how to proceed?? Thanks!

[mdavza]

Hi there, I've been on this post before, done a lot of lurking, things got better but I think I need to stay on here for a while.  Very tired!y lo slept wonderfully up until 8 month, then he cut four teeth, then he got cold, and now, for the first time, he seems to be well enough for me to start what seems to have become habitual wakings.  He seems to be slowly transitioning to one nap, but his night wakings are all over the place.  If he wakes at night, it is at different times, never really a pattern that develops, but if he doesn;t wake at night, he wakes at around 5 in the morning.  So, when he was sick he started getting a bottle at night and I've decided to cut that out.  He managed to sleep well before, and I will be diluting the bottle until he gets only water.  Our day looks like this: (this was yesterday)

A:  7:20
E: 8  (bottle at 9ish)
S:  9:45-12:00

E:  12:30
A an bottle
S:  15:20-16:45

E: 17:00
A
S:  19:10

And then he woke at 5am this morning.  I did not give him a bottle and tayed with him, he eventually fell asleep again and then I woke him at 7.  The days before that he had loooong sleeps from 11:00-14:00/15:00, but he woke at around 11:00 both nights, I just don't think he's ready for one sleep.
Maybe I just need to speak to others in the same boat!  I posted this on night wakings board as well.  Thanks!

[NadeneR]

Please may I join in? I'm slowly losing my sense of humour here.

DD is 14 mo and still on 2 naps a day. We mostly do a short am/ long pm nap, but sometimes it doesn't work out that way, like when we have a lunch engagement and she needs to have a longer A time between naps, then whe do long am/short pm. However lately, we then have complete pm nap refusal. Clearly UT. She did long am nap today and then pushed her A time to 5 hrs!!! This kid has stamina. She then only takes her pm nap at 5, about 20-30 min, and then still wants to do 4.5hrs A. Her bedtime is ridiculously late, sometimes after 10/10:30. That gives a day of 14-15 hrs and a night of around 9-10 hrs.

I've done a few 1 nap days and they've worked out beautifully. Her day is then about 11 hrs and a full night of 13 hrs. However we have had some nw's and ew's on the odd occassion when doing 1 nap, which I'm guessing may be OT? I know that OT monster well enough to know I don't want it anywhere near us. So I'm sacred to just go over to 1 nap completely.

It doesn't seem to matter whether I give her 3 hrs or 4.5 hrs A 1st thing in the morning, she falls asleep really easily and still does only a 1.5 hr nap. So I'm confused as to what her A time should actually be.

I'm wondering whether I should stick to 2 naps (long days, short nights), go over to 1 nap (short days, long nights, risking OT) or maybe alternate between 1 nap and 2 nap days? Any thoughts on this? I would be so grateful.

[All4Finn]

Hmm this thread is so very dead lol  Are we all just sooo tired of this 2-1 we have nothing left to say about it???

Nadene, I think you will get better advice or at the very least commiseration on the Toddler sleep board.  There's a continuation of the 2-1 over there.  Since 2-1 takes like 6 mths.  That is a scary thought. 

Well we are stinking it up big time with our short AM/long PM, nothing is consistent, we still have EW, and the kid is miserable.  How's the rest of the gang holding up?

[~Emma~]

 I'm coming back for a much needed whinge! Still getting nowhere and about to lose the plot! He had a good am nap this morning and then 30 mins this afternoon and he was ready for bed after 2 hours.  I can maybe just take the days but the EW is just driving me mental.  Its so inconsistant as well, sometimes he'll do a 12 hour night and sometimes a 10 hour. No rhyme or reason here, just what happens happens.

 Nadene - Yep, thats exactly it. Alternate between the days until they can either handle the OT or the A time increases. Make sense? If you can do it that way it'll work out nicely ( in theory!). You just have to call each day as you see it.

 Wendy - So the long pm nap is working for you most of the time? Can you give me a wee example of how your day goes when it goes right, just need something to work with over here. Hugs on those stonking EW, NOT NICE!

[All4Finn]

Hey there Emma, you have changed your name...I started a revolution hehe.

Well it is *working* in theory...in the sense that we no longer get PM nap refusal at all.  That's about all I can say is working.  Today he refused his AM nap so not sure what game he's playing now.  I am always the last to know :-)

So we are doing the following:
Set bedtime at 7 - we try to stick to this now, I probably should have done this a long time ago

If awake before 5:30 - feed and back to sleep, which is a terrible habit but works 100% of the time so far lately

If awake 5:30 or later we do:
Nap 45 mins @ ~3 hrs A time to be asleep by 3 hr 15-20 (It's taking him too long to go down for this lately so I think we need an increase here)
Nap 2 hrs @ ~2 hr 45 mins A time to be asleep by 3 hrs
Asleep by 7

So a half decent day would be:
Awake 6
Nap 45 mins @ 9:15 - 10 (A = 3 hr 15)
Nap 2 hrs @ 1 - 3 (A = 3 hr)
Asleep by 7 (A = 4)

What I have worked out so far is:
- on a 45 min nap he can do only about 3 hrs A time...3.5 at a push and then I am at risk for an OT nap
- on a 2 hr+ nap he seems to be able to do 4 hours A time

And that's as far as I have gotten in 2 weeks lol

[~Emma~]

UGH! Well you're a whole lot wiser than me and i've been at it for a couple of months. NUrsery day today so rubbish naps all round here.


 How is he when he's waking at 5? Brodie is doing this too but very variable, sometimes crying and others just babbling. It was 4.45 this morning full on crying but had an ok day for naps the day before. i'm stumped. Seriously considering cold turkey but I just know I'll regret it so need to keep a cool head.

[All4Finn]

Emma he's pretty miserable waking at 5, but he will often just babble at first and save the miserable for an hour or so later when he decides 'hmm didn't have enough sleep there'.  It's not like he wants to be up.  Which is how I know that 10 or less hours is not enough for him. 

So yesterday was interesting.  We are still sticking to our set bedtime no matter what.  I have to have something that I have control over, so bedtime is bedtime and it's at 7.  No more early bedtimes, unless he is sick or something.

It was:
Jan 28
EW 3:56 - bottle back to bed
Awake 6:30ish
No AM nap - refused
Nap @ 12:20 - 1:10 mantra back to sleep - 2:10
Bedtime - asleep by 7ish

Well didn't he go and sleep until 5:45 this morning without a peep at all.  It was bliss. 

[~Emma~]

Awesome Wendy! So almost an 11 hours night, thats good going.

 Y'know I'm thinking of pushing bedtime to 7 too. Despite still having 2 x naps a day he's wanting in bed for 6 every night, its ridicilous. Going to start that tomorrow I think.