9 week old won't daytime nap

[Badders]

Hi,

My 9 week old won't nap in the daytime at all.  He goes down at 11pm and sleeps through to anything between 6am and 8am, which is really good, but won't sleep in the day.  He will go down straight after his feed between 6am and 8am for about 2 hours, but then won't nap for the rest of the day.  We do the EASY routine, and look out for yawns, jerky movements and general tired signs.  When he looks tired, we take him to his dark nursery, swaddle him and put him in his cot (he sleeps in his moses basket at night in our room).  He just cries and cries.  We can sometimes settle him to sleep in the cot, but he usually only sleeps for about 5 minutes (the absolute longest is half an hour).  He starts crying again and we try to settle him, but he continues crying until it's time to feed him again.

What are we doing wrong?!  It seems like he's just spending all of the day crying and missing out on any sleep at all.  Should I start the EASY routine when he wakes between 6am and 8am, rather than putting him straight back to sleep?  Is he too young for PU/PD?  Shush-pat sometimes works, but he wakes up when he goes down in the cot and he won't go off to sleep if we put him down when he's drowsy.  He just starts crying again.  Sometimes he'll calm and stop crying, but then just looks about and doesn't go off to sleep.  I used to get him off to sleep in the daytime by rocking him.  He would sleep on me, but not for very long.  I'm trying to get him out of the habit of rocking, so we've stopped that and been using shush-pat, but it doesn't seem to be working.

[lpperry]

Similar problem I am having with a daycare kiddo I watch. He's 4 months, now, but I've been working on him since 2 months. I posted on him today actually.  He goes to sleep for naps, but doesn't stay asleep.

How long is your awake time?  Maybe use the clock for a few days rather than look for tired cues. After he wakes, put him down an hour and 10 minutes later.   

Does shhpat work at all? Once you get him to sleep using shhpat, it might be beneficial to stay with him the entire nap.  That way you can see what is going on--you can see if jerks are waking him, losing a binkie if he has one, etc.

[BabyBensMom]

Hi Badders,

I don't have advice, because i'm having the same problem with my 12 week ds. We got off of his nap schedule over christmas weekend because we went to visit family for the week. I'm hoping to add this post along with yours so we can both get some good advise

For the last 12 days I have tried to start him napping in his crib again but he just screams 75% of the time. But about once every other day he takes a 1 hour to 1.5 hour nap.

Another problem I'm having, and I think is directly related to naps, is for the last 5 night in a row he has woken somewhere around 3 to 5 am ... not like him at all. He has slept in his crib from 7 to 7 with a 10:30 dream feed since week 4.

So here is our schedule,and all advice is appreciated! (He is spirited, but for the first 8 weeks i swear he was textbook/angel)

E 7 He usually wakes me, but sometimes I wake him I try to    keep it at 7 but sometimes I steal an extra half hour of sleep!
A 7:30-? I go to the gym at 8, he sometimes sleeps there, most days he checks out the big kids at daycare
S if he didn't sleep at daycare he sleeps on the way home, until 10 in carseat
(morning rutine is great! the afternoon can be exhuasting for us)
E 10
A 10:30 tummy time, activity gym, swing 10 to 20 each
S 11:30 Up to the crib, I put on light music dance to a song and put him down. Sometimes he sleeps, most of the time he screams. shhpat pu/pd doesn't settle him. Some days it is more frustrating than others so I let him cry, and I am feeling awful about this, that is why i'm looking for help.
A If he's up before 1, if he doesn't sleep he takes a cat nap in his seat before E but usually cries/complains himself to sleep before 1
E 1
A 1:30 same
S 2:30 he usually sleeps for this nap but not today!
A if he isn't sleeping
E 4
A 4:30
S 5 Cat Nap, but once in a while a deap sleep
A 6 bath, he doesn't settle for anthing but a bath at this time of the day
E 7
S 7:30
E Dream Feed at 10
Then I usaully don't hear from him again until 7 am, except for the last 5 nights!

Also, I am considering getting a white noise machine for nap times .... does anyone think this might help/be more effective than music?

[anna*]

It sounds like these babies are really overtired. Badders, how long is your little one awake before you put him down for his nap after his 8am feed? As a guide, at two months old most babies can only manage about 1-1.25hrs awake, and that is after a good nap. After a short nap he will need to go down even sooner for his next nap. When you are doing shush-pat, don't stop as soon as he falls aslepe you need to keep going for 20 mins until he is in deep sleep.

If he is really that OT I would go back to rocking for a couple of days and then start over when he is caught up on sleep. There is plenty of time for sleep training and it only makes it harder to try to sleep train an OT baby.

As a guide, at this age an 'ideal' EASY routine would be
8am E/A
9am S
11am E/A
12.15 S
2pm E/A
3.15 S
5pm E/A
6.15 S
7pm A, bath/bedtime routine
7.30pm E
8pm S asleep for the night
11pm dreamfeed

BensMom, I really can't tell from your EASY how long he is sleeping at each nap? At 3 months, I would make sure he is asleep at most 1.5hrs after he wakes - after a short nap (less than 1.5hrs) you will need to cut that back to 1hr. The first nap of the day is the most important, it really sets the tone for the rest of the day, maybe you could experiment with moving the timing of your gym visit so that he can take his first nap at home.

[BabyBensMom]

The only s that consistently stands for sleep on my schedule is the 7:30 pm. The rest of the s's stand for screaming, at least 75% of the time.
I have tried different times at the gym, I just started the morning routine this week and kept it up b/c it seems to work for him at that time. The daycare is "complimentry" and if your infant/child cries for more than 10 minutes you're called out of your class, and daycare is over for that day for your child.
This is the first week, in four weeks, that I have finished a class.
I am spending the next week at my mil's so I won't have the luxury of the gym,  I will try the morning nap in the crib for another week and see if it is successful. I just wasn't prepared for 4 to 6 hours of crying a day, I honestly thought that doing easy would be easier.

[anna*]

((((hugs)))) I know it can be really hard. For sure, use AP if that will help him to catch up on some sleep, it sounds like he is really massively overtired. 1.5hrs may be too much awake time for him if he is that OT - you may need to feed, change, then after only 45 mins awake start to shush-pat for his nap. Is he swaddled? Have you ruled out sources of pain/discomfort ie reflux?

[BabyBensMom]

Have not ruled out reflux, but I don't think it's pain. If he is gasy and uncomfortable his scream is louder and shorter. This cry is frustrated, what my mil calls his angry cry.
I stopped swaddling when he started sucking his thumb and started refusing the dummie. I am going to try today if I need it. He took a nap this morning with no crying and I just laid him down in his crib for for is 2nd nap and so far so good!
I have been reading all of the other nap posts and found a lot of good advice. Yesterday I just wanted an instant solution b/c for 12 days nothing seamed to be working.
Badders, my ds starting having trouble with naps around 9 weeks, before that he was doing great. I think I was mistaking him being tierd, for boardum, then I was overstimulating him.
Today I've been skipping the activity gym and just talking to him on the floor. Just a few minutes of tummy time, which he hated, but now is tolerating. I caught his second yawn, and slowly picked him up, took him to his room, read a book and told him it was time for a nap. Both times it has worked!
If these ideas don't help you there are many more to consider on some of the other posts. Good Luck!

[Badders]

Hi,

Just wanted to say thanks for all the advice.  Will give it a try and let you know how we get on!

[BabyBensMom]

Badders,

I just want to tell you about my day just in case the napping gets worse. I really don't think this will help you too much but it might. This is just to let you know you should always trust your gut. Incase you start to second guess yourself, don't.

I Just got back from the pediatricians and I'm beside myself with anger and sadness. DH thinks I shouldn't be so hard on myself!

Last month, 2 month check up, DS weighed in at 13 lbs he was putting on 2 lbs a month. At that time it was 90% breastfeeding and sometimes 2 oz formula to top him off if he was still hungry and my breast where empty, maybe once or twice a day. I'd just read how he was acting after feeding to see if he was still hungry. So Doc said to stop doing the 2 oz. after breastfeeding because he was getting too much.

The next day he was just getting breast fed, and was pretty fussy. Well the crying just got worse and longer over the last four weeks. I would tell DH and he said "Ben's just a baby" But I was freaking b/c DS was not acting like my baby anymore. (I thought for a few days it was from the DTap, then I thought it was his nap schedule)

I digress, DH has been home for four days straight studying for his OMFS Boards, and today he finally said "call the doctor, I really think something must be wrong." REALLY! I've only been dealing with an increasingly unhappy baby for a month now! (and trying not to be "that mom" that calls the doctor everytime something is wrong.)

Back to today at the doctors visit, if you're still following, DS only weighed 13.1 Lbs! 1 ounce in one month! So what are we supposed to do now? "Well," says Doc, "try breast feeding him then topping him off with 2 oz of formula." ARE U KIDDING ME! A month of crying and DS thinking I'm a bad mom because he's starving to death!

Guess what he weighed today! 13.1 lbs. He has only gained and oz in a month because I listened to a doctor instead of going with what I new worked for my kid and me! and I'm mostly mad at myself about this. My poor kid has been starving and dehydrated for four weeks, and trying to tell me! I feel awful. I read the book, I knew the signs that I was looking for, but I thought b/c the books said he should only need to eat every three hours and the doc backed that up, that for sure this was OT and couldn't be hunger.

Can you imagine my DS trying to tell me he's hungry and I'm like, "the books and the doctors say you should be tired, take a nap now you malnourished baby."

So moms, the books are helpful, and doctors are trying their best, but trust your gut!
xoxo

[anna*]

((((hugs)))) I can totally imagine I would feel sad and angry in the same situation. And you're right, mummy's instinct needs always to be listened to. I really hope that you and Ben are feeling happier soon.

[abaker89]

My 7 wk old is just like yours, she thinks bedtime is 11 pm and she won't go to sleep until then.  Even if we manage to get her down during the evening hrs, she just takes a nap.  She then does what your lo does, sleeps till around 5 am and then back down, only then she sleeps till about 10 or 11 am.  Its like she is a teenager!  We have the same trouble with naps, she won't do them at all unless we put her to sleep and then she will wake up after 20-40 min and then I rock her back to sleep.  I guess I don't have any advice, just wanted to let you know that you weren't alone.  Also, maybe try and get your lo to sleep anyway that he will do it just so that he isn't OT.  I suppose we are acting as props by rocking but she is so young and she does need to sleep during the day.  Maybe it would help him get back on track?  I will be watching to see if anyone else has the solution for you.  Good luck!

Aileen

[mimi1017]

BabyBensMum don't beat yourself up over your lo (eventhough easier said than done)...I too beated myself up for the first year of my dd's life because I tried to get her to sleep, but she would wake after 20-30mins crying and I did that for 2 months while trying to bf, to find out that she had lost more than 10% of her birth weight and developed jaundice...I hated myself! I couldn't see pictures of me bf'ing her because it was so hurtful to have overlooked that she was hungry. However, she is almost 15 mos. old and thriving, happy, strong little girl. In the end, your lo is ok now and will be fine with a great mommy like you.  Being a parent is a matter of trial and error and tuning in to your lo.  It takes time, and just when you think you figured it out, something else comes up, but you seem to be doing well by using your instincts...Big hugs to you and enjoy your lo.

[Badders]

Hi,

Thanks to everyone for the support.  It makes me feel so much better.  Things going okay.  Have managed to get him to sleep in his moses basket using shush-pat.  It only takes a few minutes for him to go to sleep, but he never really lasts longer than 20-30 minutes.  Sometimes it's only 5 minutes and occasionally he can do an hour.

I'm at a loss as to how to get him to sleep for longer.  He's completely inconsistent when i'm doing the same thing every time!

[anna*]

How long is he awake for between naps?

[Badders]

The time he's awake between naps varies.  Not very long though.  Usually I feed him and then he's awake for about 20 minutes to half an hour, and then he starts yawning.  I'd say he's awake from 1 hour to 1.5 hours.  The problem is that when he wakes early and won't go back to sleep, the routine ends up more like this:

Eat
Activity
Sleep
Activity
Eat
Activity
Sleep etc. with the activity getting shorter as the day progresses. 

At the moment, it's impossible to stay in the EASY routine.  I'm staying in the room with him for the entire nap to see if there's anything I can see to elp him sleep for longer, but he doesn't wake at the same time every time, and it's not often a jolt or anything like that.  He just wakes up.

I'm