Need help with 10,5mths old naps

[locura]

We´re getting back on track with our 10,5 mths old LO after a long period of sickness and teething. We´ve had to APOP (stroller and BF) both for naps and nighttime sleep. Nighttime sleep is ok again but naps are a challenge. We can never manage to get a good 1h30 in her bed, only in the stroller (and then we have to keep walking for the entire 1h30 which is quite exhausting). We need at least one 1h30 nap during the day in order to prevent OT. We never manage to extend naps. If our LO wakes up, she wakes up. The only thing that can give her a little more rest is BF back to sleep (but then I cant put her back in her bed bc then she wakes up). I have done that a few times bc OT cycles are so exhausting.

Another bit of information is that we have a lot of construction work nearby (drives me crazy ). Many times it seems as if she wakes up due to some loud noise.

How can I get that 1h30 nap in her bed? Is it just a matter of hitting the right A time? (I think we have tried everything from 3h to 3h45) Should all babies, if everything is done right, be able to sleep through loud noise (like construction work) or do we need to take her in the stroller as long as we know it will be noisy?

I have to admit I am extremely tired of sleep training and inconsistent naps 

[~Sara~]

Hi there!  Sorry you've not had a response sooner.

Can you post your LO's EAS routine?  I think that will give us some insight.

Re: sleeping through the loud noises...it really depends on the LO.  I know DS can sleep through just about anything for only the first 30 minutes of his nap; after that, if he hears anything loud, he wakes up.  We have a fan going in his room for white noise, and it has helped tremendously!  Have you thought about some white noise to help drown out the noise?

[jess, lukeys_mom]

Hi Locura

I just wanted to pop onto your thread to offer ((hugs)). I will watch out for an example of your rotuine with the times - I am wondering if she is only doing 1 nap/day or still 2?

[locura]

Thank you for your replies and ((hugs)) I just discovered that our DD has an ear infection, sigh, and we are back to APOP Sometimes I wonder if it was worth it to wean the paci bc due to sickness and teething I feel I have become a human paci to see her through and it has been exhausting. I sometimes wonder if it had been easier for us with the paci (at one desperate point I actually tried to give her the paci, she didnt want it!)

Well, back to our EAS routine. We´re aiming for something like this:

(Night feed: 4.30)

Wake up: 6
E (BF): 8
S: 9.30-11

Solids: 11
E (BF): 12
S: 2.30 to 3-3.30

E (BF): 3.30
Solids: 6
S (and BF): 7

I have to say that to get this routine we have to take her in the stroller for the first nap (and we usually do it for the second nap also to make things easier). Usually if we put her down for a nap in her bed we only get 30min-1h and we need 1h30 to have a good day. I wonder if it is a matter of timing or lack of a good wind down routine (since we´ve had to take her in the stroller a lot)?

Any thoughts on our EAS routine is highly welcomed

lukeys_mom: As you can see we still have 2 naps. DD usually gets really tired after 3-4h A time so I dont think she is ready for the transition just yet (although she is giving some of the signs, like fighting the pm nap). 

 ~Sara~: I am glad you said that about your DS being able to sleep through anything the first 30 min but not after. That´s exactly what it is like with our DD. I have thought about the fan thing but never gotten around to it. It´s definitely something worth trying!

[jess, lukeys_mom]

Hi Laura

Yup, definitely go for 2 naps for as long as your lo will do them. My ds2 still does 2 naps at 13+ months and I will keep them as long as I can!

Sorry for her ear infection! How awful for her

Thoughts on your EASY...
- Have you ever done a shorter day, or have you concluded that the 13 hours is her "magic" number?  Usually I would say to aim for 12- 12.5 hour day length to prevent OT during the day and to make sure she has enough night sleep.
- Building on this... I think I might try to do one nap every day in her bed, and knowing that she naps shorter in her bed, plan on an early bedtime.  If you say she's been fighting the pm nap, maybe that's the one for the stroller for now, then the morning nap in her bed. Knowing it will be shorter, then try to make her afternoon A time shorter, and get her in to bed at 6/6.30 that day. Hopefully this will catch her up on some rest and help her naps start extending. Does this sound do-able?
- Do you have a good bedtime winddown routine? Maybe you can work on having a similar one at naps and bedtime, and this will help you start doing more naps at home?
- First thing in the morning - does she eat between 6 and 8 am? I wonder if starting her off with a solids breakfast would help get her fuller and nap better in the am?

Sometimes I wonder if it was worth it to wean the paci bc due to sickness and teething I feel I have become a human paci to see her through and it has been exhausting. I sometimes wonder if it had been easier for us with the paci (at one desperate point I actually tried to give her the paci, she didnt want it!)

I totally get this, I also wondered that wil ds1 (who weaned around 4-5mo, then actually started using paci at a year old due to sleep probs at day care and they just gave it to him but it did actually help  ) However, if you did try to give it to her and she didn't want it, then my guess is that this really isn't where the problem lies. I wouldn't blame yourself for weaning it!! It's always easier to think 'what if' - but I know plenty of people whose lo's have paci's and they are totally frustrated with re-plugging and sometimes that doesn't help, and they go back and forth about whether the paci is the problem!!  What you could do though is provide her with another comfort item such as a lovey?? this helps both of my kids so much!

Good luck and keep us posted 

[~Sara~]

Hi there!  Just checking in on you to see how things have gone   Hopefully no news is good news...?

[locura]

(I noticed that my message was sent before I was done so I deleted it and here is the full and revised version )

-Sara-: Actually no news is just that; no news DD still has an ear infection so we are not able to work on her routine yet. Actually what is happening now is she is waking up earlier and earlier and taking REAL long to put to bed (I BF her to sleep now that she is sick) so that she ends up with a 14 hour day or more (yak!) I hope it is the ear infection, if not we need to do some serious tweaking!

Lukeys_mom: thank you for all your thoughts on our EASY (and the paci issue)! They were all real helpful and I think I know where to start now when we sleep train again What you said about the 12 or 13 hour day made me realise that DD sometimes ends up with a 14 hour day! That definitely might be part of our problem and I never really thought about it. We do need to find a good winddown routine. The one we used to have (a little massage before the nap) doesn´t work anymore bc LO is too active. And bedtime routine is a bath so that doesn´t work either. But I guess the important thing is just to be consistent with something so she knows what is coming. It seems to be really important to our LO. I tried to introduce a lovely when we weaned the paci, but no luck. She just threw it away. Do you know a good way to introduce a lovely?

Well, I´ll keep you posted!

[jess, lukeys_mom]

yes keep us posted!

i agree that consistency is the key... implementing a winddown can be quite easy. you need to tailor it a bit for your lo's temperament and whether she needs a long winddown or very short. but you can do something like walk into the room, close the shades and turn on a small lamp, sing a little lullaby, put on the sleep sack (or whatever you use), turn out lights, and go to bed.  it helps us a LOT to have strong sleep cues. Also both our kids have loveys that they sleep with. Dylan's is a cloth doll and i kid you not, even if i pull it out during the day only 30 min after he's had a nap, he will hold it, start sucking his thumb and put his head down on my shoulder! (he is an angel baby - not all are that easy and ds1 certainly wasn't - but just to give an idea!!)

[locura]

hi again! well, we are finally back on track again .. almost. There are still a few challenges before it all falls in place. The good thing is that DD falls asleep independently and we are working on getting at least the first nap in the bed. My DH is actually the master ´put-to-bed´-er. Whenever he does it she goes down without a sound, whenever I do it she cries even though i totally copy what my DH does!  But in any case, we have managed to get a few 1h20 am naps, so at least we are heading somewhere..

Here is our main challenge these days: EW´s! Lately she has started to wake up at 5 (and for two days now at 4am!) and will not settle again. She wakes up crying and is really tired. Usually my DH manages to get her to settle again at night within 15-20 min. But neither he nor my BF can get her back to sleep. I really can´t tell where the problem lies.

Here is what our day looked like yesterday:

Wake up: 4 (DH tries PD but she fights him really hard, I try to BF but she is way to fidgety) we get her up around 5
S: 8-9.20 am

S. 1.20-2-20 pm (stroller)

Bedtime: 6 (I feel this is the earliest we can put her to bed and still she ends up with a 14h day!)

This morning she woke up at 4 again ...

During traveling I have BFed her back to sleep when she woke up between 4.30-5. So in fact she has been BFed back to sleep at 5 a lot lately. Could this be part of the problem? In any case, we are not gonna do that anymore bc it messes up our feeding routine and it doesn´t work either! Maybe we´ll get results when we just sleep train consistently...? Part of the problem though is that she ends up with too long days all the time..

Any ideas how we can turn this around?    

(oh, and I started to put on the fan for wind-downs and naps, works really well!  )

[jess, lukeys_mom]

Just wondering, for that second nap of the day, do you usually do it in the stroller? My kids always took shorter naps in the stroller than they would at home... so I was thinking that during this phase of EWs, perhaps you could try both naps at home to get more day sleep into her? The naps are not super long as is so she might be getting a little OT with a 14 hr day.

Also, do you think she might be teething? That can sometimes cause EWs...

[locura]

I don't think she is teething, but we almost went to the doctor again to check her ears. Now I don't think it's her ears either. After your post I tried to get more daytime sleep into her, but no change. Feel like I have tried everything to prevent OT now. I wonder if it's the other way around? If we are facing the 2-1 nap transition: EW's, takes really long to put to bed at night, tends to want to take long am naps.. ? I've noticed that her A times probably are short for a now 12mo old (A1: 3.30-3.45, A2: 3.45, A3: 3.15-4). Maybe we need to push her A times and AP one long nap to get into it?

[~Sara~]

Just popping in...at 12 months, I would say her A times are pretty short.  Looking back at the 1st routine you posted on June 9th (almost 2 months ago), her times haven't changed at all.  While it's true that A time jumps slow down towards the end of their 1st year, I think she's probably needing some more by now.  She might not be ready for one nap just yet...you'll need to get the A times up a bit before we can tell if that's the case for her

To extend A times, you can add 10-15 minutes every 2-3 days.  Here's a link that I think will help:
Is my baby ready to increase his ‘A’ time? (incl. 'A' times for younger babies)

Now, to what A time do you try to get her?  I'd say just to try a bit at a time, just making sure she's not getting OT.  If she's taking a long AM nap on 3.5h of A time, that might be her preference, but she might need more A time in other parts of the day.

It does sound like she prefers a longer AM nap, and that's perfectly fine.  You might find that you have to cap the 2nd nap in order to preserve bedtime (just remember: if she has less than a 1h-1h30 PM nap, the last A before bed will need to be shortened too).  It takes a bit of experimenting and trial & error.  But we'll get there

[locura]

I think you are right -Sara-. It does seem like longer A time is what we need. We tried pushing her morning A time for a few days and she gave us a little longer nights (10h30 compared to 10h15 or less). Nights are still not long enough and she wakes up crying, but it felt like we were on the right track. Just these past few days we have probably pushed her A time a little too much; short naps and OT ... I guess it´s trial and error like you said. Frustrating, but I hope you are right that we´ll get there eventually Thanks for useful inputs!

[~Sara~]

Here's hoping that those bumps get smoothed out soon

[locura]

Thank you! A few questions as we try to find the magic numbers for her EASY

 - The other day DD woke up 7.30 (happens very rarely) and had a nap from 11.40-12.45. Due to travelling she had no more naps so we put to bed early: I think somewhere between 6 and 6.30. I thought the night would be terrible with only one 50 min nap the whole day. But she slept 11h30min! Has never happened before! Is that a sign that she is ready to move to one nap?

 - We have noticed that she needs at least 4h+ in her morning Atime to get a good night. But we can´t get a long nap in her bed. We have tried shorter A times for a little while to see if naps would get better, but no (and nights got shorter too). Can it be that she doesn´t need a long nap during the day, just two short ones? The only thing that seems to make a difference on night sleep is her morning A time. Or should I keep trying to get at least one long nap to prevent OT?