How much crying before naps?

[aidenmc]

pixelbox - so sorry you are having such a tough time. I was in your position just a few days ago - at the end of my rope with hourly wake-ups at night and screaming before naps - today has been relatively peaceful. I have only dabbled with sssh/pat with my lo (who is 14 wo now) as I can only bring myself to do it when he is calm and so often naptimes involve so much screaming I can't get him calm to put him down (usually falls asleep soon after finishing crying - in my arms). So, you are not alone! Also crying peaks from 6-8 weeks so it may soon get better for you. One thing I have noticed is that ds will sometimes start wimpering or crying as we approach his room or any other dark room. Think previous episodes of crying have set up a negative association. Does that sound at all like your lo?

[pixelbox]

aidenmc: My son doesn't start crying when we approach his room. But he usually starts crying when I start shushing. Maybe he has associated the shushing with unpleasant bedtime. I also shush-pat him in my arms until he is calm before trying to put him down. For the past few weeks this has work on and off. But the last two days, he would scream when I put him down in his crib or bouncy chair or carseat. He just wants to be held. So yesterday to keep him and myself sane, I AP the entire day. He was pretty much sleeping in the sling. Hopefully this is just a phase.

nednoodle: I don't think DS has reflux. He does not prefer an upright position any more then a lying down position. I have been to the Dr to ask about reflux. He is also feeding well and gaining weight. But I will definitely ask the Dr again the next time we see her.

Let's hope today is a better day. Thanks everyone for your encouragements. Really great to be able to talk to Moms (and Dads) who have been through similar issues.

[~Sara~]

Have you tried just not shushing?  Not every baby likes shushing   Maybe he just likes to be patted with some humming or white noise.

[pixelbox]

Hi Sara
That's a good idea. I'll try not shushing for the next nap and just use my sleep sheep white noise.

This morning DS napped in my arms (for 1.25hrs) again because he was crying too hard. Even in my arms he stirred and almost woke up at the 40min mark. And I had to shush pat to get him to continue sleeping.

Then for the afternoon nap I shush-patted him in his bed and he slept without too much crying, yay!  However he still stirred and almost woke up again at the 40-45min mark. So I picked him up and shush-patted him in my arms . I did not want him to wake up cranky again. Will the AP mess up my attempt to sleep train him?

[mum2girls]

Im hearing all you ladies
my DD is the same, she is an angel at night and sleeps from 7.30pm - 6.30am with no DF so am so happy about that, naps are a nightmare tho
Today i just turned the vaccum cleaner on and did all my noisey housework (to stop me stressing about crying) and she went to sleep, yay...
her mornings are strange and so far i have been treating the 6.30am feed as a NW as she cant seem to handle being up for longer than half hour, she will start drifting off to sleep while im burping her, it just doesnt seem right to give her more A time as she is still clearly tired???
I have decided to roll with the 45min naps as im sure she will grow out of them, i have no luck with shush-pat as she just smiles. 
as milas mum said put them in the pram and go for a walk.
good luck with it all

Renee

[aidenmc]

Pixelbox - We use a sleep sheep too! Wished it went on endlessly though. Right now if httj doesn't work I just pick him up and shush pat in my arms. I recall someone on here saying she AP'd all nap extensions, though I think her lo went to sleep independently or with sp. She said that it was no problem and one day her lo just started sleeping longer on her own. For me right now I prefer him to get decent sleep rather than deal with a zillion mini naps and OT. Then again I do sometimes play it by ear. If he looks like he won't go back to sleep (like this morning after a terrible night he didn't get to sleep till almost the 2hr mark then slept 30 minutes - woke up smiling and wanting to play) then I get him up and go out of the room for a really short A time. He was up for only about 40 minutes before I had him back to sleep again. I have at times spent a long time trying to extend a nap and fighting him along the way. These days I just don't have the energy for that much persistence. 

citrinegirl - i am envious. I would take full nights over anything. My lo either wakes 3 times a night (including the late evening wake) or wakes once or twice then starts waking 45 minutes after getting back to sleep for the rest of the night. Those nights just shatter me!

[~Sara~]

I did not want him to wake up cranky again. Will the AP mess up my attempt to sleep train him?

I think you have to make sure that he's caught up on sleep.  He's also very young and you have a while to establish independent sleep.  My DS wasn't fully an independent sleeper until 6ish months, when we weaned the swaddle.  Crying does have a tendency to peak between 6-8 weeks, so things might start looking up in the next couple of weeks.

I know you mentioned that you don't think he has reflux...but do you think something else might be bothering him?  Colic?  An intolerances (like dairy)?

[nednoodle]

Just thought I would mention that Zoe is also a great eater and putting on plenty weight.  She isn't sick much, just mouthfuls.  But she is refluxing and it causes her discomfort.  I have been having a nightmare past couple of days with naps, she doesn't fuss going down but is waking sometimes within 30mins.  Today I spent an hour with her trying to resettle and could see hear and feel her refluxing.  Just saying not to discount it.  Best of luck.

[pixelbox]

Hi nednoodle,
May I ask what you meant by "you could see and feel your DD refluxing"? I am still trying to figure out if reflux has anything to do with my son's behavior.

Also, maybe I just have to tweak my expectations of my son and accept that every baby cries and that's normal. Guess I don't know what "normal" is.

Anyway... since I've been doing much AP these last few days, I'm going to try and sleep train him again starting tomorrow.
- Just to clarify, can I shush-pat him in my arms to calm him down, and put him in the crib when he is almost asleep and continue to shush-pat?
- What if he cries louder as I place him in the crib? Do I pick him up again or continue shush-patting in the crib? If so, how long do I let him cry?
- If I know that DS will likely cry for 20min, should I give my wind-down and start of bedtime more time so that he will hopefully be asleep before he gets OT? This is what is confusing, if I start shush-pat too soon, DS may resist sleep because he is not tired yet. But if I start shush-pat when he is ready to sleep and he cries for 20min, he will be OT by the time he goes to sleep. So what should I do?

Thanks again

[nednoodle]

Hi
Maybe you should just hold him to sleep for a few days to give you both a break.  I fought with Zoe to put her down to sleep for the first 4 weeks and she would cry or wake up in no time.  I eventually gave in and basically carried her until she was 7 weeks.  She slept in my arms or in baby carrier when I wanted to get on with chores etc.  Can't say it was easy but certainly less stressful for both of us.  Then at 7/8 weeks she became more alert and was happy to be put down for short periods of time.  It was then we decided to train her, when she was ready too IYKWIM.
I take her to dark room, swaddle her and hold her for 5 mins, she always cries.  Then pop her in moses, she used to fuss and cry and I would then start ssh/pat.  She used to be on point of sleeping when I put her down, this is OK.  I only picked her up if she was constant crying.  I take her down at first signs of sleepiness knowing it will take her 10 mins at least to settle.  So usually that is 50 mins from wakening.
When I said I saw her refluxing, I had my hand on her back (she sleeps on tummy, seems to get better sleep) and could feel and hear it.  Also she gulps or scrunches her face every now and then and squirms too.  It's a headache!  Don't beat yourself up, I was worried that I wouldn't get her out of habit of being held, but we have.  Your DS is still young and will be easier to change habits.

Nikki

[pixelbox]

I'm starting to think that I've got a crier in my hands. DS would cry/fuss and sometimes screams regardless of A times. I've lengthen A time, shorten it and still he cries before every bedtime. Today, I put him in his chair 50min into his A time. When his eyes starts getting droopy, I immediately picked him up and swaddle him. He then starts to cry... it's like as if he knew that swaddling meant bedtime.

Night times were even worse... after his bath and last feed, I lay him on my bed till he was sleepy then proceeded to swaddle him. He then screamed (really loudly) when I picked him up and started to rock-shush-pat him. He just wouldn't stop screaming even when I put him down. He screamed for a good 10min and closed his eyes suddenly to sleep. It's so odd... everything is so sudden. One second he was fine, the next he was screaming and suddenly he just stopped screaming and went to sleep. I don't think his screaming is mantra cry, is it? Does he just have to scream to let off some steam before bedtime?

Oh and regarding reflux, I've asked my ped 3 times, every time I visited her. She kept assuring me that he's fine. He does spit up throughout the day but he doesn't cry when he spits (happy spitter?).

Also, the only way I can AP is to rock-shush-pat him in my arms till he's asleep. He will not sleep in his stroller. He is ok sitting in his stroller when he's not sleepy. But the moment he gets sleepy, he would cry and won't sleep even when I stroll him around.

Other then bedtime, he is such a happy baby. Always smiling, cooing and interacting with people.

BTW, what is "IYKWIM"?

Thanks

[aidenmc]

If You Know What I Mean  . DS will also scream before sleep but not all the time - really can't figure out why, except that I know he will cry if he's hungry and knows it's naptime, almost like he's afraid he will have to go to sleep hungry. He is definitely worse when OT as well. Lately I have been able to extend his naps to 1.5 hrs or so using httj. He seems to cry much less than when having 45 minute naps. Also  ifind it hard to find the right A time after short naps. Can't remember if your lo is a short napper. Maybe concentrate on lengthening them and see if that helps?