Frequent Night Wakings

[Mom2K]

So we're a mess. DS is 15 weeks (born 3.5 weeks early if that matters) and we have at least 5 or more wakings a night. I wanted to post again now that I have a couple days of EASY recorded to see if any of you wise folks have some advice for us. We have some pretty crappy naps, but it's the night wakings that are really getting to us.

Here's the past few days:


   Sun
   
E   6:15
A   
S   7:35 Up   8:10
   
E   8:20
A   
S   9:35 Up   11:15*
   
E   11:20
A   
S   12:45 Up   1:50*
   
E   2:05
A   
S   3:10 Up   3:40
   
E   4:00
A   
S   5:10 Up   5:40
   
E   5:40
E   7:30/8:40
S   8:45 

Up   10:40
   12:30
   2:00
   5:30
   6:20


   Tues
   
E   7:10
A   
S   8:15 Up   8:55
   
E   9:25
A   
S   10:15 Up   10:55
   
E   11:00
A   
S   12:35 Up   1:05
   
E   1:15
A   
S   2:35 Up   2:45 (dr)
   
E   3:20
A   
S   4:10 Up   4:55
   
E   5
E   6:15
S   6:40
   
Up   9:45
   11:00
   12:30
   1:00
   3:00
   5:30
   6:40


   Weds
   
E   6:45
A   
S   8:05 Up   8:45
   
E   8:50
A   
S   10:00 Up   10:35   

E   10:45
A   
S   11:45 Up   12:45
   
E   12:45
A   
S   2:10 Up   3:00
   
E   3:05
A   
S   4:40 Up   5:40
   
E   5:45
E   7:15
S   7:30->7:50
   
Up   12:20
   2:45
   4:55
   6:00
   6:45


   Thurs
   
E   6:45
A   
S   7:55/9:15 Up   8:35/9:35
   
E   9:40
A   
S   10:45 Up   11:15
   
E   11:35
A   
S   12:50 Up   1:25
   
E   1:35
A   
S   2:40/2:55 Up   3:25
   
E   3:40
A   
S   5:10 Up   6:00
   
E   6:10
E   7:30/10:00
S   10:10
   
Up   12:30
   1:10
   3:15
   4:30
   5:15
   6:50


Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks!

[caoimhe mum]

hi Mom2K

im no expert but i'm just coming the other side of the night wakings and these lovely ladies are excellant in there advice.  i will just go by what they told me as my days and night were similar except my lo is older.  so there suggestions is that the night wakings can be caused by to short A time for the baby.  if you go into frequently asked questions there is a posty called Is Your Child ready For MOre A Time.  this will give an idea of appropriate A tImes for the age groups.  also they suggested increasing to a three hour easy, as feeding every two hours is to close and they end up snacking and not getting a full meal.  if you increase your A times in 10/15 min increases every three to four days until to reach a good nap.  start with the first A time increase it by 10/15 mins.  when you are increasing if you find that your baby is struggling maybe increase by 5mins each few days until they adjust.  hope some of this hellps a little until someone experienced comes along.

[Mom2K]

Thank you! I'm definitely having trouble figuring out his A time but I'm trying to stretch it out a little. The 2 hr feeding pattern is part of our problem, although I'm sure if we could get better naps/a time it would help space out those feeds.

[caoimhe mum]

hope that helps a little.  i know they say that a baby should be able to go at least the same lenght at night as he does in the day so thats why he is waking so often also.  just incase he isn't having a growth spurt he has always had two hour feedings, does he eat very much at these feedings. because if he eats quiet alot then it could be a growth spurt. 

[amayzie]

Thanks for posting the EASY's i noticed i didn't answer the other post!

Now that i look at the EASY i'm  wondering if she could do with an A time push. At 3 months you are generally looking at close to 1.5 hours A time- then this sometimes can get you closer to a 1.5 hour Nap, and that's how you can push the feeds out to 3 hours (3 hour EASY).

If you can increase the A times that may help you with the night wakings as she will be tireder.

Give the A time push a go- here's a link on it:

Average A times- BOOKMARK ME!

I'll get the NW ladies to have a look too to see if they have more ideas on the wakings at night- but the A time push should help the day, and also the night.

[Mom2K]

Thank you!

I don't think its a growth spurt as this has always happened and he doesn't tend to eat a lot during the NFs.

[Bex09]

Hi there, how does your LO seem at BT? Some of those last A times to bed seem quite long and I wonder if along with the short naps that your DS is a bit OT by BT. I do agree though that a slightly longer first A time could get a longer first nap and then the other A times can follow that pattern.

How does your DS fall asleep? Is he reliant on any props at all? Dummy, held to sleep etc? Also do you currently feed at every NW or resettle in another way and if so how? Sorry for all the questions just trying to figure this out! 

[Mom2K]

Bedtime is a struggle! I try to get him to bed by 1.5hrs A time. He often falls asleep for a few minutes then wakes up then does that a few times before he stays asleep, hence the really long time.

He uses a dummy to fall asleep :/ when it falls out he doesn't wake up and we don't put it back in.

I try to have DH settle him at night by rocking & with the dummy. It only occasionally works, so then I end up feeding him. If he falls asleep BFing during the night I usually let him stay asleep since he's up so often. Probably not good...

[Mom2K]

Forgot to add he doesn't seem unusually fussy at night, its just a really long process to get him to sleep. Our routine is bath, swaddle, feed, book.

[Bex09]

So is he crying at BT and how long before he keeps waking? So is it like 20/30 mins and he wakes crying? Does he seem overly lively and wide awake at BT or is he sleepy? How does he actually fall asleep for naps and BT, is he an independent sleeper or are you in the room with him/holding him?

If he is used to being PU and rocked back to sleep for the NW this could well have become a prop that DS relies on to get back to sleep. DO you have a set time that you won't feed before? So say at least 3 hrs from his last feed.

[Mom2K]

Sometimes he cries as I am changing him & swaddling him, but no crying once he has eaten. He seems awfully awake and happy throughout his bath. If he falls asleep for a few minutes and then wakes up really soon, he's wide awake, not acting sleepy at all. He very frequently wakes up after 30 minutes, crying. He kicks around a bit too.

For naps it takes him about 5-10 minutes to fall asleep. Bedtime takes much longer. He's not an independent sleeper yet- working on that!! Right now I hold him until I see his eyelids droop, then I put him in the crib keeping my hands on him. He usually has a dummy but if it falls out I don't put it back.

For night wakings we start by putting a hand on him in the crib or giving him the dummy. If he doesn't settle (which he usually doesn't) we PU and rock. He hasn't responded very well to sshh-pat or PUPD- he seems to get even more worked up when we do that, which is why we tried rocking instead. I didn't realize that was a prop if he wasn't actually falling asleep that way. :/

I don't have a set time for feeding. He usually eats every 2 hours during the day so I didn't know if I should expect him to go any longer than that at night. {Although I suspect the frequent eating has to do with the short naps.)

[Bex09]

It does sound like a few things contributing to the NW then. I totally agree that getting onto a 3 hr EASY would make things better, have you tried just adding 5 or 10 mins extra between feeds? Once your DS can cope with that you can again add another 5 or 10 mins. Usually around the 4 mo GS LOs start to move to a 4 hr EASY so you may well find that you keep adding that time on until you reach 4 hrs. If you move slowly though it should work ok.

I would also agree that trying to push that first A time out (again slowly adding 10 mins every few days) should also help with lengthening naps. If your DS short naps you might find that you have to shorten the following A times to avoid OT. TBH the behaviour at BT could well be OT, my DD acts hyper when she is OT and then she will wake frequently after BT. If she is UT she just will not go to sleep at all! The fact that your DS is actually going to sleep but then waking suggests he is tired but can't quite switch off enough yk? Have you also thought about OS? Is his BT routine quiet and relaxing?

The rocking back to sleep at night could well be a prop, even if he doesn't fall asleep that way. He may associate waking in the night with needing you or DH to help him back to sleep. Plus you are there with him when he falls asleep anyway so really it is still you/DH that is the prop. There is plenty of time for sleep training though and we were the worlds worst for AP! If you can try as much as possible to resettle DS in the cot that will help.

As for feeding in the night I think you can at least expect DS to go for 2 hrs if that is what he does in the day. As you increase this in the day you can do the same at night too. If he wakes before the 2 hr mark I would try to avoid feeding if you can and try to settle with a hand on his back. HTHs.

[Mom2K]

Thank you so much for all the advice. We will give it all a try and see how things go!

[Bex09]

Good luck and keep us posted.