Night terrors :( A pattern emerging - what to do?

[*Becky*]

Hi hun,
Just checking in - maybe PM Catherine. Her DS has suffered really badly with night terrors xx

[Sammysmammy]

There's a lot of info on google Hun. It certainly sounds like it to me  . How awful 

(X)

[becj86]

Thanks, I'm googling but there's not a lot of consistent info and in my normal scientist way, I go to peer-reviewed papers when I can't find something consistent... there's not much for kids under 6 - seems they don't study tiny children

I will PM Catherine, thanks Becky.

The thing is, he is OT as well, which will be making them worse. Maybe they'll at least decrease if we can get him better rested. Now we know he's not in actual pain (no wonder the meds weren't touching it) I feel more comfortable leaving him to it but its still pretty disturbing to our sleep - there's no sleeping through this. It does explain why the breast would help him sometimes - instinctual and deep sleep-inducing; and why he fights us so much if we pick him up.

It just seemed like the Doc said night terrors because she couldn't think of anything else, IYKWIM. Maybe I was just in denial

[koe2moe]

Hugs!!  I think from what catherine said, her lo had night terrors almost nightly but it was due to OT and she has got the sleep sorted out now, Max 10h day as he has dropped naps.  seeing how young your child is, i would think he cannot cope with 1h nap and then 11 whole day.  My DS finally coped with one nap at 23mo but he was doing 2h solid nap and no more than 10h Total A.  A bit more like 7-7 with 2h nap at 12:30. 

Hugs

[<Catherine>]

Will be back later hun xxx

[<Catherine>]

I'm so sorry I hadnt read this thread previously, I read your first post in the beginning and didnt have anything to offer as it was teeth related - it now screams NTs all the way through to me

So many hugs. These really are the hardest things to deal with. They got harder for us as DS reached about 2.5 too as the nap dropping was just awful and his NTs became more vocal and angry

As I said in my PM, OT is the cause for us - every. single. time. This age is not a good one for me as far as routine is concerned but if you can get him better rested it will help. Of course the teeth and developmental changes will just be adding to it all.

The general advice is to not to try to wake them during a NT but to be honest sometimes we are able to wake him and it does actually help - this is not what's recommended but does help us. There are times when he'll have several NTs in an evening, with just a short space between each one, he's just not settling at all, and it's not until we actually wake him that the cycle is broken and he is able to settle to sleep soundly. I generally only try waking him if this sort of situation is happening, or of a single NT just seems never-ending.

There really isn't a lot you can do to help whilst they are in the throws of a NT. I usually find, like you have, that holding him etc just doesn't help. I just make sure I am there to ensure he doesn't hurt himself with the thrashing around and to try to reassure him.

All you can do is try to prevent them happening in the first place. The child being too hot is definitely a trigger too. Try to ensure his room is cool and he hasnt got too many layers on. Otherwise, preventing OT is the only answer really.

Wake to sleep was suggested to me too, and I do think this is a good idea. DS was older when this was suggested and at that time the timings of the NTs were not so predictable so it was hard to know when to do it, but on the few occassions that I have I really think it helps. At your DS's age I found I could predict exactly when he would have a NT (the first one of the night, at least) as it was usually 2 sleep cycles (90 mins) into sleep - do you find the same? So I think W2S would have been more succesful and I would know exactly when to do it.

I know it probably doesnt help, but just remember that LO's know nothing of a NT. It is awful for the parents to see but a LO wont remember it.

Lots of support from me. Its so tough DS has gone 3 weeks or so without a NT after months and months of them (with this 1-0 nonsense), and they've started creeping back in over the last few nights Think it's down to him not being too well with a cold.

Massive hugs xxx

[becj86]

Thanks Catherine, Definitely OT is an issue at the moment for him. We are doing our best to fix that and we will be avoiding what caused it. I'm not sure about heat being an issue at the moment, but sometimes he is a bit warm, so will keep an eye on that.

Routine-wise, we're ok so long as we don't veer. He was fine until we had a go at one nap at kindy. He is LSN and refuses naps something chronic and he can deal with one 2-2.5hr nap, 11hr day and 13hr night but the days when he's at kindy are too long for that and he doesn't sleep that long there. We tried the one nap as they said something that made me think he was refusing a nap (but he just took 5min to get to sleep instead of sleeping immediately). We won't do that again as its taken so much out of us.

or of a single NT just seems never-ending.

He had one the other day during a nap (now I know what it was) and I took him outside and he still didn't wake up. He just sat on the ground and screamed like he was when he was in bed. That one went for 45min   

He did sleep from 4:30 til 6:30 (14hr) with a 1hr waking at around 1am when I had to convince him it was still night and spent about half an hour cuddling him back to sleep after a feed but he has had 13hr sleep last night and is much more like himself today.

Back after my massage I love my DH!

[becj86]

he cannot cope with 1h nap and then 11 whole day

You're right - he can't. That's what got us in this mess in the first place. He doesn't sleep long stretches at day care and they reckon I should just give it 4-6 weeks of one nap there to see if he extends his sleep patterns there. I say NO! We're doing two naps until he's refusing one or both there and then we shall figure something out.

At your DS's age I found I could predict exactly when he would have a NT (the first one of the night, at least) as it was usually 2 sleep cycles (90 mins) into sleep - do you find the same?

Nope, they are all over the place Sometimes only after 45mins, sometimes 3-3.5hr. If/when he has more and they get a pattern to them, we will give WTS a go though. I can see how it should work.

Thankyou so much for your knowledge and support. It really helps.

Hugs on the NT's coming creeping back, Cath.

He slept 25mins at daycare for his first nap today OT still but they read that as him not needing sleep that early They even suggested a sleep routine (somewhat similar to BW but someone I think is a bit of a copycat - even calls herself baby whisperer) - as if I don't know my boy's sleep inside out and back to front and I handed them a 8 month old independent sleeper the first day I ever dropped him off there.

[ZacsMumme]

So many more hugs Hun, I'm starting to wonder if we have some Nt too. Anyway that is another post.

How annoying re daycare telling you how to get him to nap...I'm sure they mean well, but probably not what you need right now aye!

[becj86]

How annoying re daycare telling you how to get him to nap...I'm sure they mean well, but probably not what you need right now aye!

Especially given he's been going there nearly 5 months and he's done more than 1hr twice in that time... they clearly know what they're doing nap-wise

Hugs, Sara. NT's are the pits

[Sammysmammy]

Hi Hun,

I think this site gives good information. Here's the link in case you haven't seen it:

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=night%20terrors%20in%20children%20scientific%20facts%20emedicine&source=web&cd=3&sqi=2&ved=0CGUQFjAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.emedicinehealth.com%2Fnight_terrors%2Farticle_em.htm&ei=39GnT7amA8ih0QWe2f35Aw&usg=AFQjCNG0hEeLWrUv0L3hu3abokNc7AETEw

Vicki.x.

[becj86]

Happy news Just the one terror last night early on during his sleep, not as severe and didn't last as long. He slept 11hr straight before woke... he stood up and said 'MALG' which I think is the first time he's attempted 'milk'. I fed him and he was happy to sit in his cot and talk to his stuffed toys... was hoping he'd go back to sleep but no luck there.

Thanks for that site, Vicki, have had a quick glance through but will read in more depth tonight.

[becj86]

For three of the last four nights, DS has had one terror only but its been 30min after he falls asleep. W2S seems a strange way to address it when its so early in the night The other one of those nights he was OT at BT and he slept the first 3hr, then had three terrors though the night, at 10, 2:30 and 5.

Do I just ride out the one NT early on in the night? Its not as bad as having 3-5 and it doesn't seem as intense or last as long as the ones that happen throughout the night when he's OT at BT.

The worst ones have always been on Tuesday nights. I can't decide if its because of being at daycare for 2 days in a row - accumulated OT, some stressor like a kid he doesn't warm to at daycare on Tuesdays, or something else.

[<Catherine>]

then had three terrors though the night, at 10, 2:30 and 5.

This is making me wonder if it is night terrors? They dont usually happen so late into the night - they are usually in the first few hours of sleep. I think it's very uncommon for them to happen even as late as 2.30am (having said that, DS has been known to have them as late as about 2am, but very rarely), 5am seems very unlikely though 

[becj86]

Yeah, I guess from what I'm reading, if they are terrors, they're not typical... Its a bit unusual for them to be as early as 30min into sleep as well

My other thought is growing pains but then why the non-responsiveness? and the fact that pain meds don't touch the pain?

Whatever it is, its starting to affect his awake time now too as he's getting more upset during the day