Advice about pickup/ put down with 7.5 mo. Am I doing it right?

[pinkskipper]

I started PUPD with my 7.5 mo old exactly one week ago when we hit rock bottom with his night sleep. He's never been a great sleeper (day or night) but we got to the point he was waking every 45 min at night needing to be put back to sleep. He has always catnapped in the day (40 or less).

When I first started pupd, it improved straight away. He started waking less at night and only waking for night feeds (last night was 12:40 and 3:40). After the initial success he has started waking more again after the first feed. So after being put down for the night at 7pm, he will sleep through til 12:40 but then wakes more frequently in the second half of the night (3:40, then 5, then twice between 6 & 7 and then finally we get him up about 7:10). Every time we do PUPD to put him back to sleep but sometimes it takes an hour; he doesn't resettle any better after feeds. I'm wondering if I'm doing something wrong with the PUPD. My husband and I both take turns in the night. Would it be better if only one of us did it for consistency? Or will it just take more time for the night wakings to decrease? He tends to flop on my shoulder the second I pick him up at night (he thrashes more in the day) but as soon as i put him down he starts to cry again. Sometimes I get confused as to whether I should be ssh and patting him while holding him or being still (sometimes the ssh pat calms him if he gets hysterical in my arms). Also whether to put him down once he stops crying or when his breathing slows?

I am trying to start him on an Easy 4hr at the same time but with all the night feeds I don't know whether to feed him upon waking or wait til 4hrs has passed since the night feed?

Daytime has improved. He went from 40 min naps to 1hr 10 min naps twice a day. I'm still thinking he's not getting enough sleep in the day though. He is really tired by the end of the day and its hard to get him to take a late catnap (which he wouldn't need at his age if he slept longer at the other two times). I don't want to be greedy. After all he has improved a lot in 7 days but any advice about extending these nap lengths? Ive tried PUPD here without success.

Here is his day:

E: awake 7:10; b/feed 7:30
A: solids 8:00
S: 9:00- 10:10 (1 hr 10)
E: 11:00 b/feed
A: 12:00 lunch solids
S : 1:00- 2:10 (1hr 10)
E: 3:00 b/feed
A: 4:45 solids (occasional 30min catnap before dinner)
E: 6:30 b/feed
S: 7:00

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[tbaker]

Hello there,

I started to do this myself with my 6.5 mo boy. Looks like your boy gets up too much at night. Are you doing the dream feed at 10:00 pm? Have you notice if he is just having a growth spurts? before putting him down for naps or at night when he goes to sleep, Do you have a wind-down ritual? are you putting him down at the same time everyday? My son used to woke up 3 times at night but now he is doing it just one. Last week I got him to sleep several nights through the night. This week he got a regression but tonight I'm going to tray the wake-to-sleep strategy.

It looks that your son either his not getting enough  food during the day, or he just want you to come to him at night and that is why he wakes up so much. I am still learning how to do this my self but I have seen the difference . HOpe that this can help you a little bit.

[katie80]

Just checking in to see how everything is going now.  I actually think a lot of your night issues could be solved by fixing the day routine.  At 7.5 mo, most babies are on about 3hr of A time.  I think if you started pushing him to do a bit more A time (10-15min every few days), he'd start taking longer naps, be better rested at bedtime and have a better night. 

Another reason for frequent wakes like that is discomfort.  Have you checked to see if he's teething at all or tried giving meds?

[pinkskipper]

Thanks so much for your replies. I went back and re-read the chapter on PUPD in the book and decided that we were probably holding him too long in our arms before putting him back down. Consequently he was starting to fall asleep on our shoulder rather than in bed. So we resolved to put him down as soon as he stopped crying so he could settle in the cot.

The days continue to be very random for naps. Some days 2 x 30 min naps; other days 2 x 1 hr naps or sometimes a bit of both. I'm going to try increasing the first A time as you suggest and see how that goes. I'll report back.

Another thing we have changed is to split the feed at bedtime so he has one breast before bath and one after. This has helped with not letting him fall asleep on the breast. It was just too hard to keep him awake for the full feed after the bath.

One question I have is about settling him for naps in the day. Sometimes when i put him in the cot he cries straight away so in this case its clear I start PUPD. Sometimes when I put him in he starts crawling around the cot and pulling at the bars and generally rolling around without crying. In these instances I'm not sure what to do. If i sit in the chair in the room, he gets upset anywhere from 5-20 mins and then i start pupd. I've also tried standing next to the cot with a hand on him the whole time but he will often try and pull my hand into his mouth to chew on  . If i leave the room, he'll start calling out straight away and escalates quickly. Any advice on the best way to help him settle? Or how best to respond?

[katie80]

Yay for the progress! It's amazing how just a little tweak is all you need sometimes.

As for the naps, I think getting him on the right routine with a proper A time will help with some of the antics you're getting.  Although, some of those can also be developmental and happen regardless, I do think a push toward 3hr A is appropriate for him.  With regards to what you do, I would just go with what you think is best.  I tended to always walk out and wait for LO to get to the point of actually needing me, but it sounds like he might have a bit of SA going on if he cries out right away when you leave, so stepping back like you are is likely the best way to go.  I wouldn't hold a hand on him if he's not actually crying for you, that will only create a game or a prop that you don't want.  Just step back and let him try to settle himself and intervene when he needs you. 

Let me know how it goes!

[pinkskipper]

Quick update: we somehow have managed to go backwards to regular 45min wakings in the night. Last night he went down at 6:40 following PUPD then woke 45 mins later. Did PUPD again and then woke at 10:3o for a feed. But for the rest of the night was waking up screaming another 5 or so times. Often at the 45 min mark.

I am wondering whether it's time to change tact with the settling to sleep. I'm thinking night wakings are a combo of OT from short day naps and being unable to self settle back to sleep. I have been trying to stretch his first A time as you suggest but he just can't do it yet (maybe because of the poor night sleeping?). The PUPD seems to have broken! It seems to have changed for him and now gets him more worked up every time we put him down in the cot. He cries every time we put him down even initially to sleep. He settles as soon as we pick him up but it doesn't appear to be getting easier with each attempt. He just cries more and more :-(. I think we are the prop.

I'm wondering if I should try settling him in the cot rather than in arms? Any other suggestions for learning to self settle? All my friends keep saying let him cry and I keep saying no :-)

Feels like we are in a vicious cycle of poor day and night sleep with no way to escape and break the cycle.

Should I hit the pause button on PUPD and try and work on his EASY? Or press on with PUPD? I read a forum post today that mentioned putting them down straight after picking up and saying your calming phrase, and not waiting till they calm in arms? Just worried I'm going to make him even more OT by doing PUPD...

[katie80]

Quick update: we somehow have managed to go backwards to regular 45min wakings in the night. Last night he went down at 6:40 following PUPD then woke 45 mins later.

This is classic OT. And it likely played a part in the other NWs as well, but I also wonder if there isn't some discomfort.  That's a lot of wakes throughout the night.   Is he getting any teeth or eating new foods that could be upsetting his tummy?

I read a forum post today that mentioned putting them down straight after picking up and saying your calming phrase, and not waiting till they calm in arms?

Yes, at this age you really don't hold them for long, I'd say a minute tops if he is quite distressed.  But, otherwise just say your sleep phrase and then lay him back down.  If you feel like you are becoming a prop and PUPD is working him up more than teaching him to self-soothe, you can certainly just settle him in the crib.  You can always try shh/pat or a variation like rubbing his back while saying your sleep phrase or singing a lullaby.  Or just sit next to the crib and hold a hand on him, pat him, or pat the mattress next to him while soothing him with your voice.

Should I hit the pause button on PUPD and try and work on his EASY? Or press on with PUPD?

If it were me, I'd continue on with the PUPD (or whatever settling method you choose), while working on the appropriate EASY.  I think that if you go back to a prop for getting him to sleep, it will likely be tougher the next time you try to get him to settle independently.  But, it really is up to you... if you think a break will do you all good, then take one.  Is there a way to get him caught up for a couple days by doing some stroller/car/carrier naps and then going back to working on PUPD?  If the naps happen a bit more incidentally rather than with the old prop, it may not set you back all that much.

All my friends keep saying let him cry and I keep saying no :-)

Finally, (((hugs))) for this.  Nothing worse than to have people urging you on to CIO when what you're doing is hard.  I can assure you, it does work though, and you'll be so glad you never let him cry as that often doesn't work.  I think it's just a matter of tweaking your method and your EASY to get him sleeping better.

[pinkskipper]

Well I got my answer about pausing PUPD. Both of us have come down with a cold so he was up every 2 hr last night from his poor little runny nose. Today he had two sleeps on my lap and one on my mum. He had about 3 hr day sleep which will hopefully help with recovery and start to break this OT cycle he's in. So a bit of APOP and then back to teaching independent sleep when he's better.

I'd love to do car/sling naps but he's such a wired little one that he needs black out in his room and stopped napping in cars and prams at about 4 mo.

I'll report back when we are back on track. Hopefully with some good news about progress!

[katie80]

So a bit of APOP and then back to teaching independent sleep when he's better.

Sounds like a good plan.  Hope you both feel better soon!

I'd love to do car/sling naps but he's such a wired little one that he needs black out in his room and stopped napping in cars and prams at about 4 mo.

Is he spirited? Have you done the temperament quiz? The BW "Know Your Baby Quiz" PUPD can actually wind a spirited up rather than teach them to self-soothe.  I'm not sure that's the case for you since you had some initial success, but if you think so, it might be worth a try to just start settling him in the crib when you get back to it.

Keep us posted...