Author Topic: Ferber method and night waking  (Read 870 times)

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Offline Satenik

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Ferber method and night waking
« on: November 25, 2012, 07:06:05 AM »
Hi...

My 1 year old continues to wake up at night 3-5 times. In my previous post I mentioned about it. I tried several things and finally  I decided to do sleep training using Ferber's method (it was the hardest decision in my life). But today is a 6the day of the training  that she still continues to wake up  at night several times. Just I want to mention that we share the same bedroom.
Mainly when she wakes just I give her water she sleeps again, but sometimes she continues to cry and I leave the room (based on Ferber's method), after some time she is sleeping. What do you think should I continue the training or stop, is it possible to do it when we sleep in the same bedroom?
Also I noticed that in the last week she is under stress, even during the day she cries when i leave her alone in a bedroom  or when we go to sleep and starting to read a book she already realizes that it is a time to sleep and started to cry. But there is a little improvement, i think she is learning to soothe her self and now we have a strict schedule of sleeping.
Then I want to ask -will she always cry after I put her to sleep or she will learn to sleep without crying? Now she is crying about 2-3 minutes, which is a very good result compared to the first day of the training when she cried 35 minutes, or  should I conclude that it is a not appropriate approach and  stop it.

Offline becj86

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Re: Ferber method and night waking
« Reply #1 on: November 25, 2012, 10:28:06 AM »
What is your routine now?

What did you think of the gradual withdrawal method I gave you a link to on your last thread?

We strongly advise against CIO and CC of any kind at any age as it breaks the trust between baby and mum. Here are some links:
Research on why 'cry it out' and 'controlled crying' is NOT recommended!
Cry it out (CIO): 10 reasons why it is not for us
Regaining Trust of Your Child
Separation Anxiety
Kara & Alexandra's Story
If you are desperate to let your lo "cry it out"...read this first

Here's the previous thread: 1 year old baby waking at night every 2 hours
« Last Edit: November 25, 2012, 10:45:09 AM by becj86 »


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Offline Papaya

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Re: Ferber method and night waking
« Reply #2 on: November 25, 2012, 12:39:32 PM »
Please hun, don't leave your LO to cry - as you've already noticed, it will be causing her stress and making her fearful that you will leave her when she needs you :(  We can help you to get through this with gentler methods.

Can you post your daytime routine for us - is she taking one nap a day now, or two? What times, and for how long? Is she an independent sleeper for naps?

Is she teething? What time of night are the NWs - NWs early in the night often indicate over-tiredness, while those after midnight may be discomfort.

Hugs xx
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Offline Shiv52

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Re: Ferber method and night waking
« Reply #3 on: November 25, 2012, 14:29:57 PM »
How does your LO go to sleep for naps and bedtime? If bec Posted you the GW link in your previous thread I am assuming your LO is not an independent sleeper?

I



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Offline *Kara*

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Re: Ferber method and night waking
« Reply #4 on: November 26, 2012, 00:47:53 AM »
should I conclude that it is a not appropriate approach and  stop it

^^  This.  At BW, we do not condone any form of CIO - Ferber included.

It simply just does not work.  Even if you do get to the point that your baby goes to sleep without a tear, you will have to repeat this "training" process at each milestone, illness etc that causes LO to go off track for a time.  Please, do read my story here:  Kara & Alexandra's Story
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Offline Shiv52

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Re: Ferber method and night waking
« Reply #5 on: November 26, 2012, 20:18:01 PM »
The reason I ask about independent sleep is if your LO can't go to sleep on their own totally unaided for naps and bedtime then it is unfair to expect them to have the skill at night.  The way I look at it is when they are hitting you practice 'gentle hands' 5 million trillion times until it clicks.  When you are teaching them to talk you practice, practice, practice.   

The same goes for sleep.  That is why i don't get Ferber.  All skills are learned.  STTN and sleeping independently are skills we need to teach and teach with the same respect we teach any other skill.  With no other skill would we just say 'right thats it from tomorrow if you don't say 'juice please' you don't get it'.  So it should be the same for sleeping.  WHy should they know what you want them to do just because you leave them to cry.  KWIM?   We need to teach it the same way as everything else.  Over time and build it up. 

HUgs xx I know it is stressful and hard but if your LO isn't an independent sleeper for naps and bedtime then you need to work on that first and then tackle the nights. 



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Offline Satenik

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Re: Ferber method and night waking
« Reply #6 on: November 27, 2012, 12:04:36 PM »
Thanks my friends, all your advises are very important for me...

Just let me very shortly describe Maria's sleep history... When she was a 3-5 months old she was a very good sleeper and woke up at night only for BF 1-2 times, after that she started teething and again 1-2 times for BF and sometimes 1-2 times additional (in very short time). Before BT i BF her then she played a little bit and slept. The main problem started  2 months ago, when she had an eczema, it was a very itchy and she woke several times at night and the only way of sleeping was BF.
 I thought that I created sleep association and decided to wean from BF, I had an another reason too to do it (I should take medications) and it is about 10 days that she is not BF. During the weaning process I could not teach her to sleep independently just we walk and walk until she was a sleepy and I put her in her crib then she sucked some toys and slept or I rocked and created another prop... Then I realeased that we need about 1-2 hours to go to sleep. Then,  I don't know why I decided to try Ferber's method. It was fine, as a result she had 2 naps and slept very quickly and in a concrete time. It was fine... She never slept so long ()about 13-14 hours) did not overtired and was happy, woke at night not so often etc.
But she was understress an  i could not leave her in a room even a second, she afraid.
The Kara's story is exactly about me and after i read your replies I understood that I did horrible thing -letting her to cry and decided to stop it.  And could you imagine what is the result- she refuses to sleep at all. Yesterday we had only one nap in my arms. In the evening she slept around 7 pm and have 3 NW, early afternoon waking - 5:30 am. Usually she wake in the afternoon 6:30 am, regardless how she slept at night. Today we don't have any nap, all the time she cries and wants to be with me. I can not even breath... she is not eating... we don't have any schedule now. I want to cry also............... I don't know what to do I am so confused and mix every thing....
I guess I disturbing her sitting near her crib and trying to rock her, but how I can teach her to sleep without me and without tear if she even refuses to stay in her crib.

Before our schedule was -


6:30 am- wake up

7:30 am-breakfast

9:30 am- nap

12:00- lunch

3:00 pm- nap

17:00 pm-dinner

19:00 pm -bedtime

Now she is teething and will start walking soon....


Sorry for late response...
« Last Edit: November 27, 2012, 12:24:54 PM by Satenik »

Offline *Kara*

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Re: Ferber method and night waking
« Reply #7 on: November 28, 2012, 00:03:02 AM »
Oh hun.. .I can help you!  As you know, I have been in your place exactly... I have to get DD up from her nap and will be back tonight once I get her to bed!

Do what you need to do to get her down until then - rock her until she is asleep for now (it is the first step to regain her trust anyways so do not feel bad about it).. you both need to share some time together to forgive and learn to trust again...

Much love!
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Offline *Kara*

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Re: Ferber method and night waking
« Reply #8 on: November 28, 2012, 05:19:30 AM »
Okay hun... so she is just about 1 year now (in a couple more days).

So she will be pushing her nap out later in the morning on her own now... I do think part of her resistance to sleep is that she just isn't ready to sleep yet... It may be easier to gain trust of her again than you think :)

The good news is that she has been an independent sleeper before, so she will relearn easily once she learns that she can trust you again.

So, first steps - we are going to push her nap out later to be sure she is really ready to sleep.

Let's start with a 3.5 hr A time after she wakes... so do her normal morning things and then take her up to her room about 3 hrs 15 mins after she woke up... do her wind down and put her in the crib with the hope she is sleeping by 3 hrs 30 mins.  If she does start to cry, don't panic.  Just lift her out of the crib and calm her down.  Put her back in the crib.  If she gets really quite upset again... go ahead and rock her to sleep.

Remember, we are teaching her that you won't leave her to cry and that she can trust you to be there when she needs you.  This will take time.

Do this for a few days... with some luck, she will settle on her own without you having to go back to rocking her to sleep.  If not, then we will do the longer version of my plan ;)

Give it a try tomorrow and let me know how she does...
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Offline Satenik

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Re: Ferber method and night waking
« Reply #9 on: November 28, 2012, 08:13:23 AM »
Thank you very much...
Your plan sounds perfect... I will try it if my plan does not work... Lets share our yesterday's experience and my plan...

Yesterday i was so nervous that i called my husband and he came home earlier. then during 2 nap time he said me- go out from the bedroom. After some time I didn't listen any sound and went to bedroom and sow that they sleep very peacefully... He just let her to play with different things and finally she slept without anything (she slept from 3:10 pm-4:30 pm).   The bedtime routine I started later at 7:00, because of later nap. We did the same, she played with different things (creams, boxes, clock etc) finally she slept (at 8:20 pm). Could you imagine? she woke at night only 2 times. first she woke at around 11:00 started to cry, dad reassure her that everything is OK, a little walked, put down, nothing helped, just she wanted that I picked her (Husband didn't allow me to pick up, saying that she will not sleep)... After crying about 5 minutes she slept again, second time she woke around 4 am drink water and slept very quickly. This is fine yes? This morning again I put her at 9:15 am, with hope that she will sleep after 1 hour and it worked, she slept at 10:15am, it means she slept after 4 hours of being awake.
I am thinking of transition 2-1 nap, maybe it is time to do it, because for the second nap she is ready around 3:30 pm which pushes bedtime later, as a result she sleeps at night around 10 hours +about 1 hour during the nap... It is not enough.
OK, my plan is

1. Let her to sleep with my presence, even it will take 1-1.5 hours, for regain her trust.
2. To do transition 2-1 naps.
3.Again early bedtime 6:30-7:00 pm
4. then teach her to sleep independently,without my presence  using walk in/walk out method or something else. 
Lets see if my plan will work or not. If not I will try yours. Do you agree with me? ??? :)

Thanks again, hope I will post about our sleep progress...

Offline *Kara*

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Re: Ferber method and night waking
« Reply #10 on: November 28, 2012, 23:50:07 PM »
I completely agree with your plan hun!  Most importantly, she is happy with it and so are you :)

I look forward to seeing your progress - but one question: what did she do for that hour before falling asleep at 1015am?  Was she happy in her crib?

Given that she is awake for 4 hrs - I would try putting her down after 3.5 hrs (remembering that an entire hour in her crib could be very low stimulation and she may not be ready to be up and playing for a full 4 hrs just yet).

Fingers crossed that your wonderful progress continues :)

Great job momma!
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Offline Satenik

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Re: Ferber method and night waking
« Reply #11 on: November 29, 2012, 04:33:25 AM »
Now my aim is to gain her trust...

Yesterday just I gave her different safe things which I can find in the bedroom (books, boxes, cloth) and she started to play with its until she become bored and slept. Otherwise (if she is not busy) she wants that I  pick up her and never agree to lie down again. I hope soon she will learn to sleep earlier than 1 hour.
Ye starday we had 1 hour 10 minutes nap at 10:10 am-11:20 am. Then I put her for nap 2 at 2:30 but she played until 3:40 pm and was ready to sleep around 4 pm, I decided do not have it and put her in the evening at 6:30 pm, she slept quickly at 6:50 pm. We had 3 times NA.
 I afraid that in this way she will be very very overtired at the and of the day because it is very long day for her to be awake from 11:20 am to 7 pm ???. Maybe after establishing 1 nap time I should think extend it up to 2 hours, then try to shorten NA.
I don't want to start rock her again, because I will create prop again and will be difficult wean from it again... After 2 weeks maybe she will go to daycare, i I don't know how she will sleep their.... :(

Thanks Kara

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Re: Ferber method and night waking
« Reply #12 on: November 29, 2012, 04:41:56 AM »
If she is happily playing in her crib, I think we know that she does feel safe there now.  So I would aim to have her first A time closer to 4 hrs tomorrow hun.  The nap today of 1 hr 10 mins makes me think she was undertired when she did fall asleep so she didn't sleep very long.

Put her in the crib about 15 mins before you hope to have her asleep - so if she is up at 7am in the morning, we don't want to have her nap until 11am... so into the crib at 1045am.  I wouldn't give her too many things in her crib or she will just play ;)  Maybe read a story in her room and then tell her it's time to sleep - take all the toys out of the crib (unless she has a lovey of course!).

If we can get her A time right, she should nap for at least 2 hrs and up to 3 hrs.
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