Author Topic: vicious cycle  (Read 1133 times)

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Offline nanita

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vicious cycle
« on: August 23, 2013, 20:23:06 pm »
Hi! So I have received great help here for my second baby who is a grumpy refluxer 8 week old. He is going to sleep with a 15 minute wind down and awake in his crib which has been very difficult to achieve but we are there. He almost never misses a nap also. BUT the commn problem: he wakes up after 30 minutes sometimes, sometimes 40 and sometimes after an hour. I know most of the time is discomfort what is causing this so I carry him and try to help him go back to sleep. Almost never works. I am going to try wake him to sleep now. But my question is: if he doesn't go back to sleep waht do I do? As a refluxer he always wants to breastfeed but I can't feed him every 2 hours according to EASY so I spend 30 minutes to an hour trying to sleep him back which I know won't work cause when he wakes up he wants to eat. And then when I breastfeed him he falls asleep eating. What should I do?? Thank you
Nanita :)

Offline weaver

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Re: vicious cycle
« Reply #1 on: August 24, 2013, 10:29:18 am »
I know most of the time is discomfort what is causing this so I carry him and try to help him go back to sleep.
Hi there, so glad you've been receiving great support here!

If discomfort is waking your baby, then that discomfort needs to be addressed.  You can't sleep train a baby who is sick or in pain. 

I don't know anything at all about reflux (sorry).  It strikes me that 8 weeks old is very young indeed so please do whatever you need to do to help him be comfortable.  If he needs to feed every two hours right now, you might want to discuss that on the colic & reflux board, but I would do it if it's what makes him comfortable.

Here's a link to the colic & reflux board:
Colic, Reflux, & Crying
*Anne*, loving mama to a honeybee (2010) and a sweetpea (2012).  BF for 4 proud years.


Offline TB9

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Re: vicious cycle
« Reply #2 on: August 24, 2013, 12:17:04 pm »
Hugs hun, its tough with reflux babies.  A lot of moms here have just done what they needed to help their reflux baby sleep until it was under control,  you can worry about independent sleep later.  For me it was 3months before I could really start sleep training with both my girls, and it took no time at all :) 

Is he on any meds for the reflux?  Do you have his crib elevated?  What are his poops like (any mucus or blood)?  Can you post his typical EASY?

Sorry for all the questions, I'm just wondering if reflux is under control since you said he is waking from discomfort ???

Offline nanita

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Re: vicious cycle
« Reply #3 on: August 24, 2013, 14:35:48 pm »
Hi there! Thanks for your answers. He is well medicated I think but the doctor says meds aren,t magic and that he will be better soon... I hope so! Sometimes hate doctor's answers. He told me not to overfeed him since it will make things worse so I stay firm butnfortab he only takes 3 onz and he weighjts 4.5 kilos. Don't know if it is less than what he has to take... well I'll ask in the correct forum!! His crib is elevated also the changer and bathtub has a an elevation too. Sometimes he even sleeps in the carseat. I know he is better but
not well yet. His poops are ok made exams to know if he is lactose intollerant but he isn't... even though I stopped eating cheese and cereal.
His usual routine is:
E: 5 am~5:15 am
A: none (change diaper if needed)
S:5:30~6:30 (wakes up crying and grimacing face stiff and uncomfortable so I spend 1 hour or more trying to sleep him again which almost never works)

E:8:00 am
A: bath (we live en Costa Rica so it is done twice a day very hot weather)
S:9:30~10:00, 10:15 or 10:30 and then spend time trying to get him back to sleep

E: 11:00 am
A:
S: 12:30 pm~? (Sometimes sleeps more sometimes just 1 sleep cycle,its erratic)

E: 2:00 pm
A:
S: 3:00~500 (usually)

E: 500 pm
A:bath
S:6:30 pm~whatever time he asks for food could be 9 pm or 12 mn. No cluster feed or dream feeds since it made reflux worse.

This is a good day. And I know he is OT also so doesn't help naps... What do you think?


Nanita :)

Offline TB9

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Re: vicious cycle
« Reply #4 on: August 24, 2013, 22:48:02 pm »
Yes, I think he is definitely ot.  I think his A times are too high for his age, have you seen this link Average A times- BOOKMARK ME!

So at 8weeks/2months babies should be up for about 1hr15min-1hr20min.  Try to have him wound down and asleep by 1hr20min and see how he does :)  At this age babies should have 3 naps plus a shorter cat nap before bed, and it looks like your LO is only taking 3 naps.  By reducing his A time you will make sure he isnt getting overtired (which often caused 30min or 40min wakeups for my girls) and you should be able to sneak in an extra catnap before bed too.

Offline nanita

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Re: vicious cycle
« Reply #5 on: August 27, 2013, 00:54:57 am »
Ok great thank you! So I read some forums and wanted to make sure the following are right decisions and I still have a couple of questions:

Decisions:
1. Whenever he wakes up earlier from a nap I should help him resettle for 15~20 minutes. If it doesnt work just do activity time, calm him down or do whatever he needs.

2. I stopped doing the early evening cat nap when it was very difficult to put him down and also because I have to feed my 1.9 year old daughter. But I will use a sling then.

3. If he wakes up earlier from a nap lets say 30 minutes before he should then he eats for 20 minutes he will have an activity time of 10 minutes plus 20 minutes to wind down.  So he will be awake the maximum time he should be.

Questions:
1.What is the accepted technique to resettle babies if they woke up for another reason than pain or illnes? Shh/pat or start winding down from the beginning?
2. At what age is a child usually able to selfsoothe back to sleep???
3. Is it ok to take some naps by his side so I will help him soothe before he start crying when he wakes up earlier? Or he will get used to sleep with me? What I am doing is put him down in my bed wait until he is asleep and then lay down next to him.

Thanks for all your help. Terrible day today he has been awaken for 3 hours now and nothing seems to work :(
Nanita :)

Offline weaver

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Re: vicious cycle
« Reply #6 on: August 27, 2013, 19:38:46 pm »
1.What is the accepted technique to resettle babies if they woke up for another reason than pain or illnes? Shh/pat or start winding down from the beginning?
Shush-pat in the cot.

2. At what age is a child usually able to selfsoothe back to sleep???
Depends on the child!!  Also on why they woke up.  The best thing to do is stop for a moment and listen, they may just be crying out and about to settle themselves, or it may be more like 'mama, I need you!'.  You'll be able to tell.

3. Is it ok to take some naps by his side so I will help him soothe before he start crying when he wakes up earlier? Or he will get used to sleep with me? What I am doing is put him down in my bed wait until he is asleep and then lay down next to him.
Whether it's ok or not is entirely up to you.  He may get used to this as co-sleeping, he might want to do it more.  If you want to continue, perhaps it's a good idea to keep a sharp eye for signs of him becoming dependent on this, so you can act quickly.  Sometimes it depends when you do these things.  For example, I used to lie down with LO1 for his cat-nap and let him feed to sleep, but because it was his cat-nap and that was dropped, it didn't become a problem.
*Anne*, loving mama to a honeybee (2010) and a sweetpea (2012).  BF for 4 proud years.


Offline nanita

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Re: vicious cycle
« Reply #7 on: August 28, 2013, 02:03:40 am »
Thank you so much! I hope he will sleep better today I need a rest :) hugs!
Nanita :)