4h EASY vs no DF

[Martini~]

Dears - I still have time but... My LO is 2m old and is on 5-6 feeds per day (6th is tanking up before BT shortly after feed before). I haven't I introduced DF as I have a good night-sleeper. Yesterday he managed his first night without any feeds and he is only 2mo. Of course, probably we will still have nights with NF but I do not see the reason to introduce DF if I know he can cope without it. I would say that when he will be 3mo I would be happy to say that no NF is out routine.

But there is a question: when he will be ready for 4h EASY will he have only 4 feeds per day? I am interested in your experience - has anyone had that situation? It's manageable? Or maybe only DF babies can go to 4h EASY?

[*Ali*]

Mine slept through until 5 or 6am without a feed at that age but had NFs to varying degrees for much longer, especially at the 3, 4 and 6mo growth spurts. Their sleep changed between 3-4mo so they sleep in cycles which mean they spend less time in deep sleep which is what is happening now. Some babies sleep through early but most will need a night feed at least some nights for quite a while after the initial sleepy early months. If he doesn't have  night feeds that is great but I wouldn't be thinking that because he has done it before many nights that he doesn't need the feeds on the other nights that he wakes and asks for a feed.d be led by him.

The less you feed the harder it is to establish supply so I may stick with 3hrly feeds a but longer if he is going 12hrs overnight without a feed. Everybody is different of course.

[Martini~]

Yes, thanks for advice!

Of course, I know he may need NF however i.e. growth spurts are peaks not a routine and 4h easy is a routine. I am just curious if it's possible to have only 4feeds a day... It seems so little!!! Do not know if Tracy proposed 4h easy having in mind that some children will not have DF.

[*Ali*]

No I don't think she meant for LOs to have a 4hrly feeding routine without a DF. Also BF research has moved on significantly since Tracy passed away and we like to think that she would have updated her advice accordingly had she still been around. It is now known that breast milk is digested much more quickly than formula (within 2hrs) and that more frequent are usually necessary for baby and for mum to keep up a good supply.

[Martini~]

That is what I thought. Great:) thanks Ali!

I will think how to adjust to my LO longer A and need for a longer nap in different way. Maybe longer stretch in the first part of the day if he wants/needs and more frequent feeding in the afternoon/evening so to have minimum of 5 feeds per day.

[Mackjack]

Don't want to throw a spanner in the works but DD  only had 4 feeds a day at 4 months and never had a DF (in any case, I didnt discover BW til around that age so didnt even know what a DF was!). I think if baby is content, gaining weight, has plenty of wet nappies and sleeps well then however many feeds you are giving must be ok

[Martini~]

Thanks Mackjack! I've seen sample EASY routines and there are kids with 4x feeds per day, but I just wanted hear real experience from people who HAD really 4 feeds a day. Do I remember right that your DD STTN when 1-2months?

[*Ali*]

Don't get me wrong if baby is sttn and happy on 4 feeds a day that is wonderful.
It should be led by the baby though not something that the parent feels "should" be happening as it just isn't possible or reasonable for most 4mo. Tracy was all for following your baby and not trying to fit him/her into a schedule. It's the exception rather than the rule I guess I am saying.

[Martini~]

I know Ali:) but it is sometimes so difficult to understand my son. He is so great night sleeper that i cannot believe I am so lucky... Frankly speaking, I am sure he was able for STTN for 1-2 weeks already (not feeding at all at 7, trouble with resettling after NF), but it was me who was afraid of NOT giving him NF. I was a bit forcing this NF at 5am I guess...

I know that my "problem" is uncommon (child STTN when 2mo!!!) that's why I would like to hear that there are kids like mine:). to make sure that it is possible and if DS is happy about it, I should not be worried:).

[Mackjack]

Yes,DD slept through at 6wks and she was BF -even so I thought I had it so hard back then as I had no clue about self settling and had to rock DD to sleep for every sleep for 6 months which also meant her naps were only 45mins (all that changed whenI discovered bw and pupd). Now I have a DS who CAN self settle but wakes during naps at 45mins anyway (although he sometimes goes back to sleep) and still has 2 NFs - I know thats normal at 13wks but I feel like I can't win with babies!

Martii, i'd be interested to see your EASY and how you squeeze that 6th feed in to see if that's something I can copy?!

[Martini~]

Of course, my EASY is almost as from the book. Feeds at 7am, 10am, 1pm, 4pm and than depending if he is hungry 5th feed between 6pm and 6:45 and than bath and top up at 7:15pm. Nothing original I guess. I also feed him from both sides from week 3, so maybe that helped tanking him up during the day.

If you look for inspirations, have you looked at sample EASY routines at EASY forum (FAQ)? You may look for 3-4m routines - maybe you will find a solution there you could copy for your DS. I found some good ideas there.

[Mackjack]

Hi. Yes, I always feed from both sides too. So the last awake period of the day, you give 2 feeds? I've experimented with various things but I wasn't sure if it was better to give him the 4th and 5th feeds 3 hrs apart (as with all the others) so that he has two good full feeds. So I might give your strategy a go and do the 4th and 5th feeds closer together and then squeeze in a 6th one. Does your DS take much for that 7.15 feed?

I've had a look at the sample routines. It's his naps that are messing everything up. He can stay awake around 1hr 45 but because all his naps are 45mins and sometimes he resettles and sometimes he doesn't, I just can't seem to make a 3.5hr routine work so I'm having to stick with 3hrs for now. Think it might work better for us to swap him to a 4hr cold turkey in a couple of weeks or so if he seems ready.

I'm so tired of thinking about this stuff all the time - every waking moment is spent reading, Googling, researching.....

[Martini~]

I do not check how much he takes:). Sometimes more, sometimes less but it has no influence on his STTN if you ask me. I just want to make sure he is full before BT so I top him up. On the other hand after catnap he is usually eager to eat. Doing bath without E before also was too tiring for him. So we ended like this. When I feed him before and after bath, I treat it like a one feed but definitely the biggest. If he is hungry earlier I have one feed at about 6pm which is big and just small top up in the evening.

Btw, why you trying so hard to put him on 3,5h-4h plan? Maybe 3h is fine for him even with longer A, as he catnaps? So you would have 4 catnaps a day? I know that would be specific but some children just are catnapers so maybe this could be a solution. Especially that your son is still on 2 NF. I wouldn't decrease number of feeds during day even if he can manage if he still needs night feeds.

[Mackjack]

I was trying to put him on 3.5hr EASY as his A is getting longer and quite often when he wakes at 45mins he eventually goes back to sleep for up to 2 hours in total (or more if I let him sleep!) so if he does have a long nap , he oversleeps a feed. But yes, sometimes he doesn't go back to sleep after 45mins and has 4 catnaps a day.

I think you're right about the amount of milk not always influencing STTN - my DD  used to sleep through whether she had big or little feeds (although they obviously need to be fairly full ).

[Martini~]

I would go with the flow so not to stress if you ask me. Feed him 3h if after catnap and 4h if after longer nap. Only try to make sure you have 5 feeds a day, even if two last are a combo separated only by 1-2h.

I have the same thing right know with my DS it terms of catnapping. Ooh, how I hate waiting for that awful 45min mark! But as we are still on short A and 3h feeds I am more stressed if he wakes after 45min as it is 2-2,5h after last feed.

Good luck with weaning NF and let's see how my son will work on no-feeds nights:)!