end of tether...is this ot

[toscacat]

Hi,
please help! My lo is 12 months old and was sleeping and napping well but for the last month with has all gone wrong to the point that I can't remember what worked! I had thought he was on the 2 -1 early (he did 3 -2 at 5-6months) and started pushing his morning nap out to ten am. This solved our BT fights and for the last 3 weeks we were doing something along this
Wu 6.30
Nap 10.30-1330 (uncapped sometimes only 2 - 21/2hrs)
Nap 1500 (capped at 30 mins)
BT 1900-1930
However in the last week he won't nap and if he does its for thirty mins (which makes me think it's ot), he struggles to get to sleep and has frequent nw (anywhere between 1-3 times ) he can also take a few hrs of grumbling to fully settle. Before he was an independent sleeper and it was great. He has a comfort blanket.  I have tried apop naps as I figured if I can just get him to sleep all will be well but no. The only decent day we had was on a 90 min nap from 100-1130 and an early bed of 1715.
We have had a busy few weeks with my husband being in hospital some teething and a house move so I am unsure if it is just because he is unsettled or if it is major ot creeping in and how to get out of this mess.

Thanks in advance

[Buttonbobs]

Hiya, it could be OT behaviour or teething. Have you tried offering meds before sleep or as a dream feed to see of that prevents the wakings?

If this makes no difference, perhaps he is more ready for one nap. My Dd never slept as long as 3 hours in the daytime so for us at this age a nap of 3 hours with a CN would have been too long, but she was reasonably low sleep needs.

Can you APOP naps at all to help him catch up?

Could you try pushing the nap a little later and if you get a long nap go for EBT?

[toscacat]

Thanks for your reply.  I should have explained better that I haven't done a cn for a few weeks  but sometimes his morning nap will be about ten and a long time to bed time if it's only a two hr nap.  He is generally tired about 9 but we can push through it and get to later if we are busy and avoid the car as he falls asleep!
Do set naps work? Should I just try and get him to 11/1130 and power on through?
I feel like we are medicating a lot at the moment without massive success.

What are other one yr old typical routines?

[Buttonbobs]

We did go to set naps here as E went to one nap. I'd say that if you've been coping without a CN for a couple of weeks then that long A to BT is likely what is causing the OT. I'd say push through to 11.30 and see how you get on. It may take a week or so to really settle on that new time and you will need to move it later again fairly shortly I'd imagine. Also, you may need to limit the day length to less than 12 hours as a whole as often EBT is needed so the afternoon a isn't too long - particularly if you get a short nap.

Keep us posted.

[toscacat]

Great thanks.  It's always difficult to know whether to keep ploughing on or to revert back! I will try and stretch him out. How much daytime sleep would I aim for in total? Right so plan leave on one nap and try and get it to 11/1130 regardless of how he is and see how we get on. Do you have to fix bedtime too or is it just nap?

[Buttonbobs]

When I went to fixed times with Dd she had been waking at 7am and going to bed around 7.30/8 with two naps but neither nap was particularly great. She had started at nursery and she wasn't willing to take a nap before 11/11.30 at this point.

I fixed naps at 11.30 (with the ability to put her down 15 mins earlier if she'd had a very early start) and then I fixed BT at 7pm (with ability to out down half hour earlier or later depending on the quality of her nap) to try and stick to a 12 hour day. I have seen some on here comment that their LO needed less than a 12 hour day if their nap was less than 2 hours so you might need to hear that in mind. It never worked for my DD but she was getting a lot less sleep than your DS was on two naps.

Average sleep needs for this age are for about 1 hour nap and 11.5/12 hours at night (once they are settled onto one nap). If he has always had slightly more than the average then you might find he will sleep for a good length night even with a three hour nap. I wouldn't cap the nap to begin with.

What times do you think will suit him?

[toscacat]

Sorry we have moved house and been on holiday and it all went very wrong however today we have started set naps and did 11 and 7.15 (put down at 1915). He fell asleep but we have had two brief wake ups so I assume overtired. He was upstairs for his nap 11-1400 but when I went in he was awake so not sure when he actually woke.  Didn't get many tired signs but was stupidly whingey about 5. Maybe I would be better doing nap at 1130 and BT 7. Would that be put him down at 7?

[Buttonbobs]

What time did he wake in the morning?

You're getting a good long nap from that morning A time but that does leave the afternoon A time quite long which could lead to that OT. I would stretch a little later for nap if you can and pull BT a little earlier - aiming for 7 asleep would be good. Is that possible for you?

If you can't pull BT earlier for whatever reason you will need to work on pushing the nap later to get he A times right I think. Other than that, the day you posted looks good.

Also remember as you change things you will get some signs of OT, just keep an eye to make sure they don't get worse, otherwise it's probably just him getting used to the changes.

[toscacat]

He woke at 6 usually he wakes about half six. Will try and bring bedtime earlier....works better for us if earlier tbh. What a time would you aim for?

[pinkladyangel]

Hi there
our lo went to one nap just before his 1st birthday. We managed to push nap out to 12 with a 2hour nap. I think for a short while we did ebt too.

[toscacat]

So far we seem to be at down at 1045 to sleep at 1100-1345 bed 1845 asleep by 7 . up at 6 am. Seems ok but aware we still have a long a time in the afternoon...could this be an issue?

[pinkladyangel]

Could possibly be ot. Have you thought about an earlier bt than 7. I'm no expert. just going on experience. x

[Buttonbobs]

It does seem like the pm a time is too long and there are two solutions to this:

1. Push the nap later: or
2. Bringing BT earlier.

Or a combination of the two. I would usually recommend pushing the nap later and keeping it early can perpetuate EWs. I would try this first and if you get no joy then go for earlier BT instead.

[pinkladyangel]

Yes buttonbob. I remember now
We did a combination of both then when we got ew we pushed nap and bt out a little. It took a fair while though. He wa about 16mths when he settled down again.

[toscacat]

Great thanks. It was tricky as dad had him (I was at work) for the first too days and he felt 1045 Into cot was best time. I got him easily to 11.15 asleep today so will keep pushing and happily bring bed time earlier if necessary.  How far to push it to though? He will do 2 & 1/2 - 3 hrs nap so don't want to go too late as bedtime at 7 pm is ideal.