Author Topic: Getting worse!  (Read 2341 times)

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Offline Pinkviolet

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Getting worse!
« on: September 23, 2014, 10:03:07 am »
Hi all,

I'm after some advice again please! My little one is waking frequently at night still. He's almost 8 months ( next week). He seems to be able to sleep about 8-9 hours and then is wide awake looking for a feed. He has his last bottle at 6pm then asleep by 7pm. He can wake quite a few times for settling too. he can put his dummy back in himself. Basically my question is, do you think a later bedtime will help in pushing the feed ( which currently is between 4-5am, this morning was 3.30) to 6-7 am or is it just accepted babies still need night feeds at this stage? I have tried giving water but he still wakes for it, takes it then screams every time he's put back in the cot till he gets his milk. I do think he is genuinely hunger as he is lip smacking some times. He is on 3 meals a day plus 4 bottles ( which includes the 4am one) of 7oz each. Should I try a dream feed maybe? Or is it too late to introduce this? How long is it expected for babies of this age to go without a feed over night? I'm aware of teething/ milestones causing sleep probs.
Sorry if post is abit jumbled with lots of random questions!
Forgot to say he naps twice a day generally for 1 hour 10-20 mins each. Sometimes he does less than this though. Last nap ends latest 4.30pm. I would post an EASY schedule but its all gone haywire the last week!
Any suggestions? ???

Offline ZacsMumme

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Re: Getting worse!
« Reply #1 on: September 25, 2014, 09:56:31 am »
So am I right he's getting 3 daily bottles and 1 night one? I wonder if you got one more in during the day if it may mean he isn't hungry at 4am :-\

There is a huge developmental regression around this age. DYT that may be what's some of the problem?
http://www.babysleepsite.com/baby-sleep-patterns/8-9-10-month-old-baby-sleep-regression/
***Sara***
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DS1 - Our sensitive soul. Silent reflux.

DS2 Our cheeky chipmunk. Reflux, MSPI.

Offline Pinkviolet

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Re: Getting worse!
« Reply #2 on: September 25, 2014, 14:50:19 pm »
Hi Sara

Thanks for replying. Yes 4 bottles in total, one at night.as he slept till 6am this morning today he is having 4 in the day time and I will start as I mean to go on. So keep it to milk in the day not at night.

I've looked at your link, thank you for that. I do think this is something to do with night wakes for sure. And I understand that. But now I am resorting to lots of ap to just get us all some sleep. So last night for example I slept in his room on the floor so I could settle him back to sleep when he stirred. And I've also taken to holding him to sleep when he wakes at night. The thing is I don't want this to become a habit and my husband already thinks it is. I've tried pu/pd ( albeit not consistently) but when I've tried it he just cries so much and I'm so tired that I end up holding him so he sleeps. I've read on here that pu/pd doesn't work well with spirited/touchy babes?

Offline Pinkviolet

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Re: Getting worse!
« Reply #3 on: September 25, 2014, 14:52:55 pm »
I should also add that naps are now at 30 mins more often now so I'm thinking of extending the first a time to 3hrs 15.

Offline ZacsMumme

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Re: Getting worse!
« Reply #4 on: September 25, 2014, 20:21:11 pm »
It's such a tough age for sleep. My second was so terrible between 8-10 mths so hang in there your not alone :-*

Yes certainly try to push A times. During this patch my boys struggled to sleep well no matter what I did. What I usually do is go with the flow and tweak a little for 2 weeks and if you end up in apop city and everything is going to custard then look at st again, gently, or using PU/pd.

What do you think? How long has this been going on lovely?
***Sara***
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DS1 - Our sensitive soul. Silent reflux.

DS2 Our cheeky chipmunk. Reflux, MSPI.

Offline Pinkviolet

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Re: Getting worse!
« Reply #5 on: September 26, 2014, 08:46:40 am »
Thanks for the kind words Sara. Did your boys just get better at sleeping over time? Sorry, I'm not sure what st is?

It's been much worse the last four weeks but can't remember the last time he slept through well. Between 12-17 weeks he was a fantastic sleeper at night. But it started to get worse at 17 weeks and has never really got back on track.

Yesterday he had two 30 min naps and a 20 min in the afternoon :(

Last night he woke after 50 minuites, didn't want his dummy and was screaming. I have him some paracetamol as think it was his teeth. He was dribbling all day yesterday poor thing. He then settled till 2am when he wouldn't settle. I sat holding him and he would drift off but as soon as I lay him down he woke crying. At 3am I decided to start pu/pd ( when he cried I picked him up but as soon as he settled i put him down, whereas usually I would hold h till he fell asleep). I pu/pd ten times and eventually he settled to sleep after about 20 mins, he then stired a couple of times between 3.20-3.30 but was settled by my voice. I'm going to try it again every night for 5 days and see if it helps. He then woke for the day at 6.05am which is good.

Offline ZacsMumme

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Re: Getting worse!
« Reply #6 on: September 26, 2014, 08:57:57 am »
St = sleep training.

It is a terrible time for teeth. If you suspect teething maybe give pain meds before bt or a nap and see if it helps him stay settled. I found for teething panadol never really helped that much but brufen did a much better job. There are alternatives too like bonjela, sprays and powders.

Can you resettle any short naps ATM? - even with AP to help him catch up. After a bit of AP if he is otherwise well you may need to do some sleep training. How are you doing pu/pd, at 8 mths your more doing just pd but I found it's more effective to be more hands off and used my voice and presence in June room to soothe.
***Sara***
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DS1 - Our sensitive soul. Silent reflux.

DS2 Our cheeky chipmunk. Reflux, MSPI.

Offline Pinkviolet

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Re: Getting worse!
« Reply #7 on: September 26, 2014, 09:13:53 am »
Ah I see, st = sleep training! Duh! Can you tell I'm tired! Lol. What exactly is meant by sleep training though?

I know Tracy recommends after 8months, just offering a pick up and if they put their arms up you pick them up. I have tried leaving him in his cot, but he gets so upset :( I just feel awful hearing him cry so I thought I could do pu/pd the traditional way, but maybe not if he's too old for it. Is pd = put down? Sorry for seeming so stupid with the abbreviations.

Re: short naps, I've not manage to extend any even with apop. Except this morning, he has gone back to sleep after waking at 30 mins.

I am trying the teething powders again, as well as gel and paracetamol. I would try ibuprofen but my GP said not to use it as he is taking omeprazole and ranitadine and they aren't to be used together?

Offline ZacsMumme

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Re: Getting worse!
« Reply #8 on: September 27, 2014, 08:44:36 am »
Oh bless. So maybe some of this is reflux? I forgot your lo was a fluxer. PU/pd doesn't work to well with reflux unless it's well controlled. At this age for T when I st I sat in a chair or the floor in his room and used my voice to soothe with as little contact as possible. It does mean a lot of crying though :( so you what to know they're not poorly yk?

Personally I found brufen more effective for both my boys and they both have/d reflux. Both were on losec.
***Sara***
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DS1 - Our sensitive soul. Silent reflux.

DS2 Our cheeky chipmunk. Reflux, MSPI.

Offline Pinkviolet

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Re: Getting worse!
« Reply #9 on: September 27, 2014, 09:21:11 am »
I had thought maybe due to reflux, but he seems much better on that front to be honest. Normally if its worsening,  I can hear the acid regurging, he seems uncomfortable in himself, wont lay down at other times like nappy change or floor play, but he is fine at the moment fingers crossed. We have a review coming up in two weeks for the reflux so will mention theibuprifen again then. I think the plan is to slowly start weaning one of the meds next. Tried at six months but reflux worsened dramatically!

Yesterday morning I re settled his nap and he did 1hr 50 mins in total which is fantastic. He must have been catching up on all his missed sleep. Them did 30 mins in the pram later on  and I bought by forward by 15 mins. At night he woke after 50 mins, then again 40 mins after that but settled with hand in back and dummy. Then didn't wake again till 4.20am where he woke crying but settled with hand on his back, then ten mins later stirred again but settled as above then woke for the day at 6am. So no pu/pd needed last night.

This morning hubby got up with him so I could have a lay in, and put him down for his nap at 2hrs 45mins, he woke after 30 mins so hubby sat holding him so he could sleep. Bless him, he forgot I'm trying a longer a time and try not to do naps before 9am! Lol! Can't grumble really, at least he's helping:)

Offline ZacsMumme

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Re: Getting worse!
« Reply #10 on: September 30, 2014, 10:04:29 am »
Lovely DH is helping out and you got a lie in. You need to take the breaks when you can :-*
Looks like the longer A is defiantly helping the naps aye? :) keep gently pushing
***Sara***
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DS1 - Our sensitive soul. Silent reflux.

DS2 Our cheeky chipmunk. Reflux, MSPI.

Offline Pinkviolet

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Re: Getting worse!
« Reply #11 on: September 30, 2014, 14:20:02 pm »
Yes, I pushed first a time to 3 hrs 10 mins and last two days have had a 1hr 15 min nap in the morning but only 30 mins after the same amount of a in the afternoon! But this morning after the same amount of a he only had 30 mins and woke happy and cooing! Thinking I might need to push it abit more? Maybe 3hrs 20 and see how he goes? It seems that if we don't get that first a just right then the whole day is wonky.
I've been doing the traditional version of pu/pd ( using the fact that he's not quite 8 months yet as my excuse!) and we've seen some improvements to the night wakes but only been a few days so I'm not convinced its solved as yet! Ive also done few slightly early bts due to short pm naps.

Offline ZacsMumme

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Re: Getting worse!
« Reply #12 on: October 02, 2014, 09:31:13 am »
Often they need a longer A throughout the day so try a wee bit longer (say 10/15 mins) for that second A and see how things go. Personally I think 1hr10/15/20 is a pretty solid morning nap for 8 mths and my boys could do full A times on that x
***Sara***
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DS1 - Our sensitive soul. Silent reflux.

DS2 Our cheeky chipmunk. Reflux, MSPI.

Offline Pinkviolet

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Re: Getting worse!
« Reply #13 on: October 03, 2014, 06:55:05 am »
Thanks, yes I will try a longer second a time if we get a good nap. Yes, I am thrilled with any nap who's is 1hr 10mins or more, to be honest, I'd be happy with an hour twice a day! Lol!

Still having trouble with the night wakes but he hasn't been up for hours in end each night since I did pu/pd and I haven't actually had to lift him out of the cot for a couple if nights. I've been able to settle him in the cot which is a big improvement. But still waking 3 times on average. He is well and truly crawling now too so maybe he's a little more tired. Also he hasn't been waking for feed this last week in the night which is another positive.

I've been trying to get back on track with easy, we're getting there but if we go out it goes abit wonky as I have commited to some baby groups on two days which clash with naps :( don't really want to miss out but it does make for a wonky couple if days with not so good naps and u think this throws him alittle. He seems to really respond to a predictable pattern.

Offline ZacsMumme

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Re: Getting worse!
« Reply #14 on: October 04, 2014, 18:52:46 pm »
Would the baby groups consider changing the catch up to another time? If all the babies are a similar age they may embrace a time change ;)
Crawling can upset sleep too. It's really a funny age with sleep.

Looks like your making great progress, well done
***Sara***
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DS1 - Our sensitive soul. Silent reflux.

DS2 Our cheeky chipmunk. Reflux, MSPI.