Author Topic: 15 week old sleep regression and the swaddle conundrum  (Read 1153 times)

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Offline mmjones

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15 week old sleep regression and the swaddle conundrum
« on: September 28, 2014, 17:41:53 pm »
Hi All!

My second child, daughter Caitlyn, is 15 weeks old tomorrow (but won't be 4 months old until the 16th of Oct.) since maybe week 2 home from the hospital she has fought being swaddled. However, it has been helpful in getting her to fall asleep BUT doesn't help her sleep longer bevause the minute she stirs she starts trying to break free. Fast forward to now - she's trying to roll over from her back to tummy and she extremely mobile. I put her down in one spot and she's in a totally different place when I go in to get her (in her crib). She still has a strong startle reflex.

She's never been a great sleeper but she used to only wake once between 2 and 3 am and again between 5 and 6 am BUT it would take LITERALLY 2.5 hours toget her to fall asleep for the night! Now, she falls asleep quicker but has been waking 4 times a night! She been breaking swaddle for months and it wakes her up. I've tried swaddle me blankets, aided and anis blankets, miracle blankets, you name it I've tried it. Also naps are touch and go. She routinely takes 39-45 minutes naps, after about 15-20 min of trying to get her to sleep again I just take her out of her room because I have a 3 year old that's also at home with me and I don't have the time to sit trapped in my daughters room all day. By then she's cranky and still sleepy. AM I SUPPOSED TO FED HER THEN EVEN IF IT HASNT BEEN 3 hours yet?!!! I usually do feed her.

So my questions are: 1) when she wakes early from a nap and won't go back to sleep but it's still like an hour before she supposed to eat again - do I feed her or make her wait the hour? What if she's over tired and needs snap before then?

2) I think it's time to break her out of the swaddle due to the fact she's always fighting it and is close to rolling over. Any suggestions on how to deal with the sleep regression that will happen? Do I shush/pat or use pu/pd or what? How do I help her through the process of getting used to her Starks reflex withou accidental parenting?

3) with a toddler at home too I honestly don't have the time to devote to the training process like I did when my son was little. Any suggestions of how to deal with sleep training with a toddle running around? I have read the faq entry on the subject but i still need more help.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2014, 22:35:49 pm by mmjones »

Offline mmjones

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Re: 15 week old sleep regression and the swaddle conundrum
« Reply #1 on: September 29, 2014, 04:16:02 am »
Here's a sample schedule (times change daily bases on when she woke up)

8 am - wake; diaper change; eat
8:30-9 --activity (she really starts fussing after benign awake for 45 minutes. I've found that when I stretch it to about and hour and fifteen minutes I can't get her to sleep without ALOT of work and accidental parenting because she way over tired)
9-9:30/9:45 -- sleep (wakes screaming and trying to break swaddle- I go in pay her and out pacifier back in mouth and most days she closes her eyes multiple times but pops them back open unless I pick her up and hold her and patcher back to sleep all the while she's fighting the swaddle and fighting being on my shoulder. If my son is home too I just take CAITLYN out of her room and end the nap)
10 -- eat
10:30/10:45 - down for nap (she won't talk asleep till 11);is owns the next 2.5 hours in and out of her room trying to get her to sleep. She wakes every 20-30 minutes until finally falling into deep sleep around 12:45 and sleeps for 1.5 hours
2:15 - eat
3-3:20 down for nap
3:20 - nap
3:50-4:15 - try to put her back to sleep
4:15 - take downstairs and try to not feed her till the 3 hour mark
5 - feed
5:45 - try to put down for nap
6-6:30 - sleep
6:30 - feed, bath,play,etc
7:30 -feed and swaddle for bed
8-8:30 try toget her to sleep
8:45- sleep
12:30 -awake -feed
2:45/3:15 - awake- feed (probably broken swaddle)
5/6 - awake - feed
8:45 am -awake for the new day

At one point I was able to actually stick to a 3-3.5 hr easy schedule but when the short naps started I didn't know how to handle them. She is exclusively breast fed (rarely gets bottles).

I just don't really know how to deal with the short naps vs feeding schedule and the swaddle issue. Any help would be appreciated!

Offline weaver

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Re: 15 week old sleep regression and the swaddle conundrum
« Reply #2 on: October 04, 2014, 10:07:33 am »
Hi there,
As far as I can see, you've never really had an EASY with Caitlyn? Is that right?  Don't worry, it's perfectly normal, lots of mamas get to EASY around 3 mos.  It would be a question of getting your EASY going with Caitlyn now.  So, time to try untangling the various issues and deal with them separately, ok?

When trying to get a routine started, I find it really helpful to wake LO at the same time every day, just makes the rest of the day easier for me, and to see a pattern over the days.  Average A time for her age is 1hr 20-30 mins, and some of the things you describe sound like undertiredness to me. A time is counted as time from eyes open to eyes shut.  What do you think?  If she's is giving tired signs before about 1 hr 15 or so, I'd try to see if those are 'bored' or 'change of scene' signs instead, change her for a more low-key activity (I mean, really low-key, watching you hang out washing, looking out the window, whatever), and see how she fares.

I would try to keep the feeds as much at 3 hours as you can - not strictly, yk, but I wouldn't feed her again after 1.5 hours, for example.  The idea being that she would be hungry enough to do a 'good' feed, rather than having a wee snack and wanting to feed again soon after.

You are there with your baby, if you don't feel swaddling helps her, then I would drop it, gradually with one hand at a time, or cold turkey.  It really is up to you.  Mind you, my two LOs loved being swaddled and stayed in it til 7 mos so I can't offer expert advice on that ;)  You might like to see these though:
Aussie swaddle instructions
Weaning the swaddle - when, how, tips and tricks

And lastly to say, there is a whole board devoted to having two small folks about that you might want to look at:
And then there were two...
*Anne*, loving mama to a honeybee (2010) and a sweetpea (2012).  BF for 4 proud years.


Offline mmjones

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Re: 15 week old sleep regression and the swaddle conundrum
« Reply #3 on: October 05, 2014, 08:08:19 am »
Hi! Thanks for your input!
The schedule I posted is what our days have looked like the past 2 weeks since the short naps started. However, she's been on an easy routine since she was 2 months. As with my first child, we tend to start the day at different times and that seems to work for us so I probably won't change that part. But when she does wake for the day, prior to the short naps, I would change her, feed her, then she'd do tummy time or sit in the swing or rocker while I made Bfast or she'd just sit with me in front of the TV. Then she'd start throwing a fit like she's tired around 45 minutes. Now I can get her to go an hour but any longer and she becomes unbearable (crying and fussing non stop, won't be soothed by holding or relocating or anything short of taking her to her room and shush patting). I also notice that if she's up longer than an hour it takes longer to get her to calm down and fall asleep. I discovered this through trial and error and have tested it every 2 weeks.

If she's anything like my son, I will have to be guided more by her sleep cues than by what's typical for this age because they both seem to get over tired and over stimulated very quickly.

We are now on day 6 without the swaddle.  I used the zipadeezipp to transition her.  She's getting better but I'm still having to intervene when she wakes early from startling herself or to get her to sleep to start with if she's over tired and those arms and legs start jerking and flailing.

I will see about adding another 15 minutes to her activity time and also check out the other board!

Thanks.

Offline creations

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Re: 15 week old sleep regression and the swaddle conundrum
« Reply #4 on: October 06, 2014, 10:59:44 am »
Hi there.
Looking at what you've said it sounds like she likes a really short first A time but is then taking an UT short nap.  I agree with Weaver's advice regarding extending A times but would also say if you are totally convinced from your trials that she can only handle a 1hr first A then a short nap, then perhaps this just suits her, LOs are all individual after all. If this is the case you could try out a sort of flipped EASY where the CN comes at the beginning of the day and longer naps later, basically just accepting that first A time and nap as both short and working a longer A and nap time thereafter for the rest of the day.
It seems to me you are spending a long time trying to settle her and in some instances (like nap 2) the A is short but you are then spending a huge amount of time (and energy) into keeping her asleep or resettling. I would really look at keeping her up longer for that A and ensure she really is super tired before the nap - as you are putting in so much work already it wouldn't really be anything additional if you were to go in at the 20 min mark and shush/pat her through for 10 or 20 mins with a W2S to help her learn to stay asleep.  I actually did this with my DS when he was older and dropping to 1 nap, I went in every 19 mins to help him through the transition until he was able to do it alone. I was literally only in the room 2 mins because I timed it right up to the mark of the minimum help needed and it avoided a lot of crying and a lot of trying to resettle once he was fully awake.  It can work wonders for younger babies learning to get into a healthier sleep routine too.
So, the other thing I noticed was here:
3:50-4:15 - try to put her back to sleep
4:15 - take downstairs and try to not feed her till the 3 hour mark
5 - feed
5:45 - try to put down for nap
6-6:30 - sleep
She is awake 2hrs 10 mins. You say yourself she cannot handle an A time this long, you might not even have noticed that the A times are getting so long later in the day. My feeling is that you started WD for nap too early, at just 1 hr and this was after a 1.5hr nap too, so she was UT for the nap and fought it. UT babies sometimes go to sleep because they are not used to staying awake longer, it has become their habit to be tired at a short A time, but unfortunately they then only sleep a short nap and take a lot of work to get back to sleep (if ever they go back to sleep) and can be very cranky due to having had the short A and short nap. In fact the waking screaming at 39-45 mins as you describe in your first post, is exactly what my LO did when put down UT.
I would track your A, E and S time in separate columns on paper if possible and note down her A time from eyes open, add 1hr 30 A and note down when her next nap is due. After a short nap I would not decrease the A by much at all (if any) max 10 mins.
I'd also try her on a much shorter WD, have you ever tried that?  Some like a good 20 min WD as described in the BW books, for others this drives them insane, mine liked roughly 3 mins. It might be worth a shot.
When Tracy was getting a LO into a suitable routine she used (almost) set times for a couple of days, this meant LOs had some super long A times if they woke early from a nap and refused to resettle as they were not invited for their next nap until the 'set' time (Tracy describes do anything needed to keep baby awake, a fan dance if necessary). I know you have a 3yo to care for at the same time but it does sound to me like this routine might be less work for you rather than more.

A few things for you to think about :)