4 Month Old Stopped Napping

[VnessMorris]

Hello:

My daughter (Mackenzie, 4 months old tomorrow) was napping quite well up until Sunday.  She used to reliably nap 1.5-2 hours and now doesn't want to nap much more than 40-60 minutes.  My wife did PU/PD 5x with only 1 success; is now trying shush pat for 45 minutes with mixed results, and is losing her voice as a result.  Because of this, The EASY cycles are getting shorter due to shortened naps + 45 mins of PU/PD or S/P. Are we trying to get Mackenzie on to a 4 hour cycle too fast?

Mackenzie has been sleeping great at night, 5 out of 6 nights have been 8 hours + at a stretch.

Is there anything we are doing that might be causing Mackenzie to not want to nap?  She is happy and healthy while awake and feeds well.

Thanks,
Ken

[newkidontheblock]

Hi Ken, and welcome to the forums.

4 months is just a tough time in general. There is a LONG and difficult wonder week. Are you familiar with the wonder weeks? These are mental leaps which pretty much turn their world upside down and play havoc with their mood, appetites and sleep. Month 4 was a tough one here and drove me a bit mental too. It does get better once you are on the other side. Would you like to post your routine for us to take a look at?

[VnessMorris]

Hi Newkidontheblock!

Thank you for your reply. Below is a reply from my wife:

Yes, we are familiar with the Wonder Weeks. Mackenzie is currently halfway through week 17 (Leap 4). Here’s hoping that she’s near the end
Here is her routine for the past few days (trying to transition into 4 hour cycles):
DAY 1:
10 hour night time sleep (yay!)
E – 21 min breast feed at 6:25am
A -  60 mins activity
S – Nap #1 for 50mins + 40 mins PU/PD (no success)

E – 9:30a 20 mins BF
A – 1:10 play time
S – 11am nap #2 for only 45 mins + 1 hour of PU/PD (no success)

E – 1pm 30 mins BF
A – 1 hour of play time
S – 2:30pm Nap #3 for 50 mins + 20 mins PU/PD (no success)

E – 4:30pm 26mins BF
A – 1 hour play time
S – 1.5 hour nap #4 (yay!) on her tummy (supervised via video)

E – 7pm 15 min BF
Bath, massage, “tank up” BF (10 mins), calm down for 5 minutes, in crib awake but calm and she falls asleep on her own.

Day 2:
Mantra cries at 2am and 3am (she falls back asleep both times)
4:25am – mantra cry escalates – 25 mins BF
Total of 8:25 hours of night time sleep (yay!)
E – 7am 27 mins BF
A – 50mins play time
S – Supervised tummy nap 1:40 (yay!)

E – 10am 20 mins BF
A – 1:20 play time
S – 12pm nap 49 mins + unsuccessful PU/PD 44 mins

E – 2pm 29 min BF
A – 1:20 play time
S – 4pm supervised tummy nap for 1:55! (yay!)

E – 6pm 23 min BF
7pm Bath, massage,  tank up BF for 20 mins, calm down and in crib awake. She falls asleep on her own.

Day 3:
4am – 24 min BF
Total of 8:35 hours of night time sleep !
E – 7am 23 min BF
A – 1.5 hours of playtime
S – 8:30am supervised tummy nap for 2 hours!! (had to shush pat for 10 mins to help her fall back asleep at about 1:10 in her nap)

E – 11am 20 min BF
A – 1:25 playtime
S – 12:30pm nap for 42 mins (shush pat and PU/PD did not work)

E – 2pm 25 mins BF
A – 1:20 mins of play time
S – 4pm supervised tummy nap for 40 mins (shush pat & PU/PD did not work)

E – 6pm 9 mins BF
7pm Bath, massage, tank up feed of 32 mins, calm down, in crib awake, she falls asleep on her own

Day 4
4am – 19 mins BF
Total of 8:05 hours of night time sleep!   
E – 7am 15 min BF
A – 1:30 play time
S – supervised tummy nap for 47 mins (shush pat did not work)

E – 10:30am 15 min BF
A – 1:30 playtime
S – 40-50 mins (stroller nap in car seat)

E – 2pm 12mins BF
A – 58 mins playtime
S – supervised tummy nap 47 mins (shush pat did not work)

E – 5pm 12 min BF
Very fussy, quick bath, no massage, tank up feed 20 mins, calm down, in crib awake and she falls asleep on her own.

Today:
5:47 hours of continuous sleep, then:
12am Mantra cry escalates. Shush pat for 20 mins did not work.
1am  9 min BF
Another 4 hours of continuous sleep, then:
5:30am mantra cry escalates. Shush pat for 10 mins did not work.
E - 6am 32min BF
A – lasted only 20 mins before she started yawning
S – 6:40am supervised tummy nap; currently 1.5 hours in! yay!

I welcome all suggestions, critiques, etc...that you can give me! That and I will work on my patience during this 4th Leap!  Thank you in advance!!
Vanessa Morris.

[newkidontheblock]

Here’s hoping that she’s near the end

The storm is in week 19, hun. That's the worst bit. But things get a lot easier once you're through this one.
short naps at 3-4 months? Take it easy, it will get better!

Vanessa, if you don't mind, could you please post it in a slightly different EASY format
So,
E - 7
A - 1.5 hours ( that's eyes open to eyes closed including feeding time)
S - 8.30-10.30
..and so on. It's a bit hard to read through it the way it is written above

I welcome all suggestions, critiques, etc...that you can give me! That and I will work on my patience during this 4th Leap!

This leap also pushed me to the end of my tether, so {{hugs}}}

Months 3 & 4 are prime time for short naps & all sorts of sleep shenanigans. Just keep repeating 'this too shall pass'

WRT to moving to a 4 hour EASY, there are many breast fed babies who cannot go 4 hours between feeds to begin with. Mine couldn't. She moved herself to a 3.5 hour EASY as she wouldn't want to nurse when she woke from her nap and would only ask for it a half hour later. In fact, when we moved to a longer A time of 2 hours, I had to nurse her twice otherwise she would wake soon because she was hungry.

Here are some links for you to go through in the meanwhile
Time to Transition - 3hr, 3.5hr or 4hr EASY
3-4hr EASY Transition – In 5 Minute Increments

[VnessMorris]

Hi Newkidontheblock

I've hijacked my husband's account 

Here is the updated EASY routine in the format you've requested.  Thank you for helping us out! Vanessa.

DAY 1:
10 hour night time sleep (yay!)
E – 6:25am
A – 1 hour
S – 7:40 – 8:35 (+ PU/PD)

E – 9:30a
A – 1:10
S – 11:00 – 11:45a (+ PU/PD)

E – 12:55pm
A – 1:30
S – 2:30 – 3:20 (+ 20 mins PU/PD)

E – 4:30pm
A – 1:20
S – 5:30 – 7pm

E – 7pm
Bath, massage, “tank up”, bedtime

Day 2:
Mantra cries at 2am and 3am (she falls back asleep both times)
4:25am – mantra cry escalates – 25 mins BF
Total of 8:25 hours of night time sleep (yay!)

E – 7am
A – 1:20
S – 8:30 – 10am

E – 10am
A – 1:40
S – 12 Noon – 12:49pm (+ PU/PD)

E – 1:55pm
A – 1:50
S – 4pm – 6pm

E – 6pm 23 min BF
7pm -  Bath, massage,  tank up, bedtime

Day 3:
4am – 24 min BF
Total of 8:35 hours of night time sleep !

E – 7am
A – 1:53
S – 8:30am – 10:30am

E – 10:40am
A – 1:45
S – 12:30pm – 1:12  (shush pat and PU/PD)

E – 2pm
A – 1:45
S – 4pm – 4:40 (shush pat & PU/PD)

E – 5:50pm
A – 1:09
7pm Bath, massage, tank up, bedtime

Day 4
4am – 19 mins BF
Total of 8:05 hours of night time sleep!   

E – 7am
A – 1:45
S – 8:45 – 9:37a (shush pat)

E – 10:30am
A – 1:45
S – 12:30pm – 1:38 (stroller nap in car seat)

E – 2pm
A – 1:20
S – 3:20pm – 4:20 (shush pat did not work)

E – 5pm
Very fussy, quick bath, no massage, tank up , in bed by 6:30pm

Today:
12am Mantra cry escalates. Shush pat for 20 mins did not work.
1am  9 min BF
5:30am mantra cry escalates. Shush pat for 10 mins did not work.
E – 5:50am 32min BF
A – 52 mins
S – 6:40am – 8:40am

E – 8:45a
A – 1:13
S – 10am -  11:45am

E - 11:45a
A - 1:25
S - 1:10pm - 1:50pm (stroller nap)

E - 2pm
A - 1:20
S - 3:20p - 4:15p

E - 4:15p
A - 1:10
S - 5:25pm could not catnap

E - 6:00p
Bath, massage, tank up feed, bedtime (6:35p)

[newkidontheblock]

My first thoughts are that you should push your A times a bit. It won't be possible to get her back to sleep unless she is tired enough and she doesn't seem to be. She is clearly able to transition so that's great. Maybe push your morning A to 2 hours and hold at that point since you are getting a longer nap on days when you have done a longer A and that's the time when she is rested enough to handle it. Try keeping it at that for the rest too, if possible. I do notice an increase in A times in the later days but not one consistent time, you know? When increasing A times, it is important to do it gradually and hold at the new time for a few days to give her body time to adjust. These babies have such narrow sleep windows that even 5-10 minutes makes a big difference to them.

It seems like she is getting very tired by the end of the day and instead of a catnap, that is where you are getting a long nap. I know it is tempting to let her sleep but I would suggest you cap that nap at 30-45 minutes tops and go for bedtime after that. You want her adding that to her night sleep rather than being too rested and bedtime being pushed back.

The great thing is that as you push her A times, she will only need 2 naps + a 30/45 minute CN, so one less nap to worry about:D So on the last day you posted, with a nap ending at 4.15, I would have gone straight for bed by 6. What do you think?

[VnessMorris]

Thanks for the recommendations!

After rewriting the cycles as you requested, I noticed just how variable her A times are!

I tried to push her A time this morning; she was resistant and I had to put her down for her 1st nap at only 1:20. I've noticed that her 1st A seems shorter than later in the day.  Would pushing her A time in the 2nd cycle (mid-morning to early afternoon) instead of the 1st cycle work for transition?

As for pushing nap times, I have now been successful with the Shush Pat method. It takes around 25 mins to get her to fall back asleep but at least she falls asleep and stays asleep!  (I tried the Wake to Sleep method but it seems I need to rouse her a bit more).  If she only naps for 45 mins, how long should I try to put her back to sleep before I stop and start a new EASY cycle? I've read 45 mins or up to the end of their nap period?

Thanks again!
Vanessa.

[newkidontheblock]

Would pushing her A time in the 2nd cycle (mid-morning to early afternoon) instead of the 1st cycle work for transition?

Yes definitely. At the end of the day, you have to follow her cues:) Many babies do actually need a longer second A. It is likely though that she is tired sooner in the morning because her nights are not that long. I think that as you lengthen A times, nights should improve and lengthen and this will in turn lead to her being able to do a longer A in the morning too - so it should all work out. I should mention that around this time their sleepy cues become a tad unreliable. They tend to seem sleepy even when they are not completely tired out. So you should also take into account how easily she sleeps off and the length of the nap when assessing her A time. It is good to keep an eye on the clock too.

As for pushing nap times, I have now been successful with the Shush Pat method. It takes around 25 mins to get her to fall back asleep but at least she falls asleep and stays asleep! 

Awesome! It is great to work on comforting in the crib itself right from the start

If she only naps for 45 mins, how long should I try to put her back to sleep before I stop and start a new EASY cycle? I've read 45 mins or up to the end of their nap period?

Hun, as someone who drove herself a bit mental trying to achieve the perfect nap lengths and basically pat/shushed her way through entire days, I would say try for a bit and move on if it isn't working. You can always put down a bit earlier before the next nap or go for an earlier bed time as well.

[VnessMorris]

Newkidontheblock:

This is amazing...thank you so much for your guidance and support!

Mackenzie is still sleeping well over night (1 middle of the night wake-up for a feed, averaging 9-10 hours per night) and her naps are still avg'ing around 40 mins but will follow her cues and move on.  Thank you for posting short naps at 3-4 months? Take it easy, it will get better!....definitely puts things into perspective.

Lots to learn about my daughter and about Baby Whisper-ing.     She will start week 18 on Monday...getting ready for the Big Storm in week 19!

I'm hoping to return the favour to the forum as I gain more experience through my journey with Mackenzie!

Thank you again!
Vanessa (and Ken).

[newkidontheblock]

You are most welcome. Happy to help:)

I'm hoping to return the favour to the forum as I gain more experience through my journey with Mackenzie!

That's great! We love mamas (and dads) who pay it forward. That's the backbone of this forum:)
Have you checked out the Birth Clubs yet, Vanessa? It's a great way to chat with other mums of similar aged babies and share experiences
This is the one you would post on
Re: 3-6 months, Part 42

[VnessMorris]

Hi Newkidontheblock,

Just thought I'd update you on Mackenzie's naps and night sleep.

I have been successful with the Shush Pat during naps (takes approx 5 mins to settle her down, another 15 to make sure she is in deep sleep, and then I take 5 mins to slowly walk out of the nursery). I've been using a Shush App on my iPhone to save my voice!  When i first started with SP, it took over 45 mins ( ) and I lost my voice as a result ( ).

Night time sleep is also good...8+ hours straight majority of the nights.  Currently, we are nearing the end of week 18...week 19 coming up next. I feel like she's giving us 8+ hours of night sleep just to get us rested for next week!!

She also successfully extended her A times to 2 hours consistently! Yay!

Thank you for all your advice and guidance. 
Vanessa (& Ken and Mackenzie!)

[newkidontheblock]

Great update!