Help with almost 5 month old 20,30 and 40 minute naps!!!

[Sammy2439]

Hello everyone,

I got some great advice from this forum for my daughter when she was a baby (now three) and here I am back again hoping for some help with getting my son to nap!

So some background... He is 20 weeks old (five months on 2nd June) and he currently refuses to nap for longer than 20-30 minutes... It was 40 minutes but now that's a thing of the past! The only way I can get him to nap longer is if I hold him or take him out in the car. As you can imagine with a three year old to look after these short naps are making things very hard!

He will get himself to sleep in his cot, but after twenty minutes he starts wriggling around, rubbing his eyes and then ping they are open and he's wide awake. Very rarely can I get him to go back to sleep even if I'm holding him. He thinks shush pat is just a game!!!! He doesn't usually cry when he wakes up starts getting miserable pretty quickly so he is obviously still tired.

When we do what we can to get him to have a good nap (ie car,holding etc) he sleeps amazingly well at night 7/7.30 - 5am ish, has some milk then back in his cot until around 7.30am. Sometimes even if he has rubbish naps his night sleep isn't too bad. I really don't know what to do.... And I'm getting so frustrated.....

I was working on an A time of 2 hours but last few days I've pushed it out to 2.25hrs with no difference.... i can't even give you an EASY breakdown as naps are basically happening whenever I can get him to sleep. He has milk every 4 hours (usually 8oz) at 7,11,3 and 7 (sometimes with an extra bottle around 5am). The day essentially goes wrong from the first short nap as I then spend all day trying to deal with an overtired baby and trying to get him to sleep. If he has a 20 minute nap I struggle to get him back down again for usually another 1.5-2hours.

Really hoping somebody can help me figure this out before I drive myself crazy!

Thanks in advance,

Sam x

[newkidontheblock]

Hi Sam. Welcome back
A general rule of thumb for most (not all) babies
20 minute nap generally indicates overtiredness (OT)
A 30 minute nap also generally means OT
A 40-45 minute nap could go either way as either OT or UT is preventing them for starting the next sleep cycle.

At 20 weeks, A times would be moving towards 2 hours but not more. These short naps do seem like OT to me. Could you pull back on the A time. Just PD for nap 1 after 1.5 hours and see how that goes?Then slowly add on till the nap lengthens. Short naps are mainly developmental at this point. It gets SO much easier after the 4 month sleep regression and you have just gotten over the stormy period, right?

If he does a short nap again, reduce the next A time by 10-15 minutes and PD again It would really help to see your day in EASY format. It's fine if it is messy - that's just how things are in the early months

[Sammy2439]

Thank you so much for replying!!

I was starting to think he must be overtired...I think I've got so frustrated that ive not been able to look at things objectively!!!

I read that the average A time for a four month old is approx 2 hours, he's nearly 5 months old so should I stick with two hours or go right back to like 1.5 hrs and work from there? I'm getting the feeling he is just so so overtired that it's a vicious circle now and even a good night sleep isn't fixing him?

Today has been...

E - 6:30am I let him go back to sleep as awful night last night
S - 6:45
A 7:55
S- 10:10 - 10:35
A

E- 11am
A
S - 12 - 1:55 (car nap) woke up as soon as brought the car seat in from car
A
S 14:20 - 14:40

E 15:15
A
S 17:20 - 17:40
A

E 19:00
S finally at 19:40 woke up at 20:20 took about ten minutes to resettle....

So looking at above, first And time was 2.25hrs he settled well for this nap and was asleep on his own within about five minutes.... But then it all went downhill into the horrible world of over tiredness for the rest of the day!

So I have a few questions....

Should I wake him up at 7am tomorrow regardless of how the night goes and do a 1.5 hr a time and take the day from there? How long should I try and resettle him if he wakes up a short while into the nap and should I use shush pat or pupd?

Apparently we have thee days left of the wonder week leap 4.... So am hoping that might make a difference???

Thanks again!! I will update with how the night goes......

Sam 

[newkidontheblock]

I'm getting the feeling he is just so so overtired that it's a vicious circle now and even a good night sleep isn't fixing him?

At 5 months, A times are over 2 hours. In fact, they jump so quickly between 5 & 6 months. We were doing 2.10 with DD at the beginning of 5 mos, then 2.30 by the middle and by 6 months we were closer to 3.20. Lol. I said 1.5 A because I thought he was just in his fourth month. My bad, sorry.

If you have observed 2.25 being a good time, try that out. How long was the nap on that time? Why do you think he was OT for the rest fo the day after it? If he is not able to transition on his own, could you try being in his room at the point he normally wakes and patting him back down? And yes, I would wake regardless of how the night went. You want to set his body clock and a fixed WU time works wonders.

When you are trying to catch up on OT, I would say do whatever it takes to get a long nap. Carry for the rest of the time if needed. Once you are caught up on the OT, you can sleep train if needed. I would say try to resettle for 10-15 minutes. If it seems like it won't work, move on and reduce A time before nap 2 and PD again. The method you use depends on you and basically on what works for him

[Sammy2439]

Thanks for replying, I appreciate any help!
I tried 2.25hrs the other day and got a 20 minute nap....!

Here is what happened yesterday....

Wake up 6:15am
E
A
S - 7:50 - 8:30
A
S - 9:50 - 10:10 (car)
A

E - 10:45
A
S 11:30 - 12 (very tired,  rubbing eyes, moaning, kept trying to get himself to sleep but got frustrated - wouldn't go back to sleep no matter what I tried)

A
S 13:45 - 14:15 and 14:20 - 15:45 (in the car for first part of nap, woke up after 30 mins then got himself back to sleep, stayed asleep when transferred to pushchair)

E - 15:45
A
S - 16:40 - 17:00 (car nap)
A

E 19:00
S 19:35 - fought sleep but think was probably overtired with a two hour a time on. Twenty minute nap?? Slept through until 5:45 this morning, had milk and went back to sleep until 7:20am

Yesterday I basically did anything I could to get him to have more sleep in the hope that we could start today afresh.... However today is awful!! Lol! It's 14:50 and he's had maybe a total of an hours sleep all day so far!!

So I think I need to start again tomorrow when I'm home all day...? Wake him up at 7am regardless! What A time should I start with?

I think he ends up overtired as he has been starting the day with a 20 min nap and then having 20-30 minute naps all day and then passing out at bedtime!!

Thanks for answering my questions! 😄

[newkidontheblock]

I tried 2.25hrs the other day and got a 20 minute nap....!

Uh oh. Was it a one-off or are you constantly getting short naps with that time? Dial back a bit if so.

How did today go? That first nap is just too early, I guess. I would say to wake him at 7. PD for nap 1 by 9. Does he go off independently? Even if it is a bit early, he should toss a bit but then settle. WDYT?

[Sammy2439]

Hello, sorry I've not replied.... Been tearing my hair out lol!!

So for the past few days I've been working on a first A time of 2 hrs 20 mins and getting 40 minute naps - literally could set a clock by him!! Although at this a time he is self settling down to sleep as soon as I put him in his cot! Does this mean under tired or he just can't transition through to the next phase of sleep? I don't get it??!! He can go through sleep cycles at night time, why is daytime so different??? I'm so confused 

[Zia]

Hi Sammy, I'm not gonna help but decided to reply and let you know that I'm in an identical situation with my son (4 weeks younger than yours). I'm a huge fan of baby whisphering, it helped me loads with my 3 years old daughter. My sons short naps puzzle me! At night he sleeps from 7till 3 and then again till 6-7. During the day he will sleep 30 mins in the cot, in the buggy he will often wake after 20 mins, even if I'm on the run, soother in the mouth and all cosy etc. I just dont get it... My daugher was very textbook, slept 1,5h or 45mins. He doesn't seem too overtired after a 2h A time, from the begining his A times were very textbook too. He slept well the first two months(swaddled and without a paci until 3 months). I can live with his 4 naps a day but I would love to find a fix  that would help him to have a more restorative naps. Sorry I know this post is chaotic- just letting you know you're not alone :*

[Sammy2439]

Hi Zia,

Your reply has actually made me feel better, at least it's not just me (although I'm sure you're just as fed up)!!!  I think that's half the problem, having an older child that was so text book, had no problem doing long naps etc so now it feels doubly frustrating!! I love baby whisperer and really believe in it, just need to get to the bottom of these short naps! My son is similar in that he won't sleep for long in the pram either, he will sleep in the car but usually won't transfer out of it without waking!!

Today is a new day!! He slept from about 7:15pm - 3:30am had milk (which he hasn't done all week) then slept until 7:10 this morning.  I'm going to try sticking with my 2hr 20 a time this morning and being in his room from around 30 mins to pay him through to the next sleep cycle? That's my plan....knowing me though I'll probably wake him up and it will all go wrong!!

How old is your son? Is he on 2 hr A times? Just thinking Maybe I need a longer a time of 2.5 hrs? (My son is now just over 21 weeks (5months).

Thank you so much for your reply it really helps to know you're know alone! You have my full sympathy as its hard enough with two children!!! We will figure this out!!!!

Sam