Author Topic: A new mom starting EASY to a 2 months daughter (hope it's not too late!)  (Read 1738 times)

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Offline Flamenco

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Hello everyone,

I am Anastasia, living in Russia, 35 yo in 2 weeks, mother to a lovely 2 months old' Maria. As a new mom I was totally overwhelmed by my baby's coming into our lives – and totally went with the flow in the beginning – generating several problems, I guess. And I'd highly appreciate your help in solving those.

Maria was born on time, perfectly healthy but rather tiny, so the pediatrician has prescribed breastfeeding her on demand (she's still EBF). I guess at some point that has contributed to several terrible colic episodes between her 6th and 8th weeks since I could not always read her clues well; luckily those moments are in the past by now.

However my baby stopped sleeping her 2,5 hours day naps on her 3d week – switching to the infamous 45 mins and sometimes even 20 mins. And I still cannot lengthen those. This has led to her being upset all the time; she does not sit in a sling, does not stay in buggy for longer than 20 mins, every ride in car is a nightmare – she does not fall asleep in car seat and just cries like crazy. She also considers all pacifiers a personal offense to self.

I've recently decided that EASY would be absolutely indispensable for her and started implementing it since this Tuesday. That has worked wonders on her mood – she is no longer cranky after wakeup, I feed her for 30 mins, then we play – then I try to start the sleep routine as soon as her eyelids redden (I think I've at least "caught the wave" of her being ready to skip breast before naps).

And here the nightmare comes. I normally swaddle her, then we close the curtains, say bye-bye to the sun, I sit on my bed with her and start shushh-patting (her crib is beside my bed). Even if she were reaching stage 3 by that time, she starts screaming indignantly, the shush-patting can take up to 30 mins. And she needs to sleep 10-15 mins in my arms before I put her in the crib – but I am working on that (to no avail so far). In the morning I still can calm her down and put to bed reasonably quickly, but after 2 pm she cries longer and sleeps become even shorter (30-20 mins). She's obviously wound up by bedtime (bath at 18:30 then breast – and she may be down by 19:00 if I'm lucky) and can wake up 4-5 times during the night to feed.

I've tried prolonging her naps – holding hands, even keeping a hand on her during all her sleep – nothing works. She just opens her eyes wide and starts crying. I understand this is developmental, but I see that she's obviously overtired and would love to help her sleep better – and also not to go crazy myself.

I'd be extremely grateful for your advice – I am totally against the CIO method and just want to give Maria all the comfort she needs. Thank you in advance, everyone, and sound sleep to your little ones!

Offline trimbler

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Hi Anastasia, and welcome :) And well done too, it sounds like you're really clued in to your LO which is so important :-*

The newborn phase is tough, please be assured that what you've described is completely normal, I think most of us are here because we didn't find EASY, easy :P The colic peaking between 6-8 weeks is actually pretty textbook, really tough, but you should just about be coming out of the worst of that...

Shh pat is really hard work, actually if she's falling asleep by 30mins that's pretty good, some take much longer. At this stage it's really a tool to help teach them how to sleep independently one day, and you can do as much 'work' as you need. In the long run it's better to do it whilst they're in the crib, rather than letting them fall asleep on you - it's very common for a sleeping LO to wake up once they're laid down, unless they're in very deep sleep. But as you say she's so tired, especially as the day goes on, I'd suggest perhaps doing shh pat in the crib (you can start it on you, but lay her down before she actually goes to sleep and continue doing shh pat there) for the first nap, see how it goes, and if she short-naps and doesn't resettle then feel free to hold her or do whatever helps most to get her to sleep a longer time for her second nap - just to break the cycle. I actually used props much more (sling) second time around because of needing to get out with the older one, but she learnt independent sleep just as well when she was ready, I stuck to one nap at home with shh pat every day and that made it easier when I started more consistent sleep training around 4mo. Just saying this in the hope that it will reassure you that you're not too late ;) Do you have any props that work at all for sleep? I don't think I'd have survived without the sling :P

Another thing - bear in mind that some LOs don't like the shh, others don't like patting and prefer rubbing or a gentle pressure, etc etc. so feel free to play around with shh pat until you find something she seems to respond to.

The waking at 20mins sets off alarm bells (not major ones, don't worry!) for me as both mine struggled with silent reflux which caused discomfort/pain. Apparently waking at 10/20mins can be related to that, so perhaps something to look into? Or gas? Do you think there's any pain/discomfort? I don't want to worry you unnecessarily so if you don't think so then feel free to ignore that!

My other question is how long is she up at a time? So, from the time she wakes in the morning for the first feed, until the time she falls asleep for her first nap - how long is that? At 2 months I'd expect around 1h to 1h 15mins max, or she may be overtired and so short-nap. Actually mine needed slightly shorter 'A times' at that age.

Oh and another question - is the room really dark? Some LOs find it makes more difference than others, but I'm convinced it's made a big difference to mine, as babies neither would sleep if they could see anything at all - even in the sling I had to cover then up (safely so they could still breathe!) so they couldn't get distracted by other things they could see.

Glad you've found us, hope you find these forums as useful as I have (and still do!), all the best as you begin this amazing, though exhausting, journey :)



Offline Flamenco

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Thank you so much, dear trimbler, for such a detailed answer! You're giving me lots of hope))

As per your questions – no props work so far(( She hates the sling! She fell asleep by herself in a moving buggy twice, but woke up every 20 mins, so I do not consider the buggy as a good prop for her. The best prop are my arms(( She slept 1,5 hr today from 6:30 till 8 with me hugging her((

She might have gas so I'm now on a milk-free diet suggested by the pediatrician, we decided to observe her for 2 weeks and see.

Her time from wake-up till next sleep (if I'm lucky) is 1h15 mins, she usually shows tiredness after 1h and I start the bed routine. When she's napped 40 minutes all day, she gets tired quicker in the 2nd half of the day and I start the routine after 40-45 mins.

The room is dark – I've got blackout blinds, that really helps.

So far I guess it's the shsh-pat I am doing wrong – and the timing of me putting her to bed (too late). Need to work on that – through the crying, I suppose.

Offline trimbler

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Ok first an apology, I just went to this FAQ to get you the link and realised I'd remembered it wrong :-[ Apparently the average 'A time' for 2mo is 1h 15 - 1h 20, so you're doing that anyway :) This is the link I was referring too, really useful as a guide although of course all LOs are different.

Average A times- BOOKMARK ME!

If you do think there may be discomfort then I really wouldn't worry about trying to do shh pat for every sleep, if she's in pain she'll struggle to settle even more so if you need to hold her, don't feel bad about doing it - you're giving her the comfort she needs and spending important time bonding too :-* I'm sure you both felt better after that 1.5h nap :) Even if you were aching by the end of it :P I've heard it said that it can take up to three weeks for dairy to completely leave your system and hers, although I'd have thought you should see a difference by two weeks if dairy is an issue - I'm no expert on that though. Does she bring up wind after her feeds? I always struggled to help mine bring up their wind, but found that trying lots of different positions helped - so sitting her upright with straight back; holding her up over your shoulder; lying her across your knees on her tummy; lying her on her back with you raising her arms above her head; combinations of these in succession - sorry if I'm just telling you stuff you already know but perhaps there's something in there you haven't tried. Then there are various remedies on the market for infant gas, opinions vary over whether they do anything at all but you never know :P

Oh, and you may not be doing the shh pat 'wrong' at all, I just wanted you to feel free to experiment with different ways of doing it and see what seems to help her the most. Let's see whether your dairy-free experiment helps too... There are techniques for extending naps, they're more likely to work when pain-free and the A time is 'right'. I'll just find a couple of other links which you may find helpful if you haven't already seen them...



Offline trimbler

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Offline Flamenco

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Ok first an apology, I just went to this FAQ to get you the link and realised I'd remembered it wrong :-[ Apparently the average 'A time' for 2mo is 1h 15 - 1h 20, so you're doing that anyway :) This is the link I was referring too, really useful as a guide although of course all LOs are different.

Average A times- BOOKMARK ME!

A great link indeed, thank you! I normally respect the timings, DD's eyes redden after 1 hr of being awake, so the last 15-20 mins are dedicated to swaddling, ritual and shh/pat. Sometimes after a catnap she's tired event faster, after 40 mins.

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If you do think there may be discomfort then I really wouldn't worry about trying to do shh pat for every sleep, if she's in pain she'll struggle to settle even more so if you need to hold her, don't feel bad about doing it - you're giving her the comfort she needs and spending important time bonding too :-* I'm sure you both felt better after that 1.5h nap :) Even if you were aching by the end of it :P I've heard it said that it can take up to three weeks for dairy to completely leave your system and hers, although I'd have thought you should see a difference by two weeks if dairy is an issue - I'm no expert on that though. Does she bring up wind after her feeds? I always struggled to help mine bring up their wind, but found that trying lots of different positions helped - so sitting her upright with straight back; holding her up over your shoulder; lying her across your knees on her tummy; lying her on her back with you raising her arms above her head; combinations of these in succession - sorry if I'm just telling you stuff you already know but perhaps there's something in there you haven't tried. Then there are various remedies on the market for infant gas, opinions vary over whether they do anything at all but you never know :P

What I do now (for the 3d day in a row) is – her 1st nap (40 mins) – in her bed. Then 2nd – 1,5 hrs normally – in my arms (and she's so different after that! Such a pity she cannot manage that on her own just yet!). Then 3d, 4th and sometimes 5th (all short, even 30-20 mins sometimes) – bed again. I started her on EASY and shh/patting on Tuesday and I definitely see progress by today! She's asleep faster and struggles less when I put her to bed drowsy. However it's too early to draw any conclusions obviously.

She sometimes brings up after eating, but I try to prevent it – I put her on my shoulder vertically every 10-15 mins of eating to provoke a burp. I hope whatever it is that bothers her, it goes away – today she woke up because of gaz! I sometimes give her a form of simethicone – seems to work against gassiness. 

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Oh, and you may not be doing the shh pat 'wrong' at all, I just wanted you to feel free to experiment with different ways of doing it and see what seems to help her the most. Let's see whether your dairy-free experiment helps too... There are techniques for extending naps, they're more likely to work when pain-free and the A time is 'right'. I'll just find a couple of other links which you may find helpful if you haven't already seen them...

Thank you for the links! I've tried holding her hands and legs – does not work(( Re-shhing – does not work(( Apparently I should dare to try the W2C – sooo scary!)

Thank you, thank you, thank you so much for your help and advice, it gives so much relief and inspiration and strength – jut to know that I'm not the only one out there struggling))

A friend of mine has got a 1-month girl on her hands who only sleeps if a KitchenAid is working! Guess who's been doing a loot of baking recently)) So mine's not the worst, I now see that))

Offline trimbler

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You know, it sounds like you're doing really well, I don't think there's anything more I can say right now as there's obviously progress so let's see how things go, do let me know! :) How do you feel about things at the moment?

I think it sounds great that you're getting that 1.5h nap in your arms, it's obviously what she needs to help get her through the rest of the day, don't be afraid to do that later on in the day or get a short nap in the buggy, especially if you just need to get out, it's not fun being stuck inside all the time!

W2S... I was always too scared to try :P But I know it's worked well for many on here. Really I think if you're getting progress with getting her to sleep whilst she's in her cot, concentrate on that first, there'll come a time when she needs less help and once she's able to fully self-settle, there's a good chance that she'll be able to start to learn to do that again to transition into the next sleep cycle. Of course she may surprise you from time to time and do a long nap out of the blue - make the most of it when she does ;)

The kitchen aid comment reminded me - do you use white noise? Can help, if you want to try, you may even find you don't need so much shh-ing if you use it, as it kind of does that for you. Another thought - have you tried inclining her cot so that her head is higher than her feet? Can help with possible discomfort from reflux - if she has some silent reflux then she may not even bring anything up but could still get that burning sensation from the stomach acid. We used simethicone too for gas, no idea if it helped but I couldn't bring myself to stop it just in case :P

So anyway, please update as and when you like, and hang on in there, it does get easier eventually :)



Offline Flamenco

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Re: A new mom starting EASY to a 2 months daughter (hope it's not too late!)
« Reply #7 on: September 01, 2015, 06:38:50 am »
How do you feel about things at the moment?

Thank you so much for asking! Yesterday was terrible, I guess it's the full moon – she woke up every 2 hrs in the  night and fought the shh/patting during the day like crazy.


I think it sounds great that you're getting that 1.5h nap in your arms, it's obviously what she needs to help get her through the rest of the day, don't be afraid to do that later on in the day or get a short nap in the buggy, especially if you just need to get out, it's not fun being stuck inside all the time!

Yes, I think I'll stick to that routine for a week more and then see how to progress. The trouble with the buggy is that she wakes up in it and does not fall asleep(( I think I might give the sling another try – maybe she'll be grown into it?

W2S... I was always too scared to try  But I know it's worked well for many on here. Really I think if you're getting progress with getting her to sleep whilst she's in her cot, concentrate on that first, there'll come a time when she needs less help and once she's able to fully self-settle, there's a good chance that she'll be able to start to learn to do that again to transition into the next sleep cycle.

I hope so! I did W2S twice yesterday – did not work; I'll do as you say and just do a week or two of shh/patting on my shoulder and putting her to crib drowsy, just as I'm doing now.


The kitchen aid comment reminded me - do you use white noise? Can help, if you want to try, you may even find you don't need so much shh-ing if you use it, as it kind of does that for you.

Tried the noise – to no avail, there is no difference with or without it, so I decided to go without.


Another thought - have you tried inclining her cot so that her head is higher than her feet? Can help with possible discomfort from reflux - if she has some silent reflux then she may not even bring anything up but could still get that burning sensation from the stomach acid.

Just followed your advice! Won't hurt, thank you for suggesting that!

So anyway, please update as and when you like, and hang on in there, it does get easier eventually

Thank you so much for your kind words!)) I guess when she starts napping in sling or buggy, I'll be majorly relieved – it does make you crazy to just be stuck inside for 2 months in a row already.

Offline trimbler

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Re: A new mom starting EASY to a 2 months daughter (hope it's not too late!)
« Reply #8 on: September 01, 2015, 19:24:06 pm »
Oh (((hugs))) Anastasia, it really is tough isn't it! I never found the buggy worked for either of mine but the sling was great, maybe give it another go then? Both mine seemed to fight it to begin with, they just needed to get used to it, also if they were already OT (when first getting used to it) they'd be worked up anyway and scream for a little while in the sling, then drop off :) But as they got used to it they'd smile and snuggle down happily ;) Just get it nice and tight, it's supposed to emulate that cosy feeling they had inside you, they can hear your heart beat and breathing etc. I also found I had to block out visual stimulus by covering their face loosely - of course making sure they could still breathe - having them high up on you (the other key - close enough to kiss!) is important so you can see/hear their breathing and monitor them. Actually I don't think I had to cover them at 2mo, this was more important for them to switch off as they got older - safety first :)

Sorry, off on a tangent there! Another question, it wasn't quite clear to me before - do you continue the shh pat once she's lying down? Or has she pretty much fallen asleep by the time you put her down? Do you pick her up again if she cries? I just ask because I think with DS (my 1st) I picked up too much, almost at the slightest fuss, which overstimulated him and made it harder for him to sleep. With DD, I accepted that there would be fussing, crying even, when she was lying down, but I kept her there, maintaining really close physical contact and shh-ing etc, unless she was really upset, at which point I'd pick up. Of course, if you think she's in a lot of pain then pick up all you like, it'll probably be much better for her to go to sleep in your arms and then try again in the cot later when she's more comfortable.

More hugs, you're doing so well, just hope you're able to share the load sometimes?



Offline Flamenco

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Re: A new mom starting EASY to a 2 months daughter (hope it's not too late!)
« Reply #9 on: September 02, 2015, 17:26:49 pm »
I never found the buggy worked for either of mine but the sling was great, maybe give it another go then?

it is tough indeed! However compared to her 6-8 weeks – we've made so much progress by now! I'll be trying the sling again and again – so far she just hates it, but I'll see what happens in a week.
Another question, it wasn't quite clear to me before - do you continue the shh pat once she's lying down? Or has she pretty much fallen asleep by the time you put her down? Do you pick her up again if she cries?

I normally put her down when she's with semi-closed eyes, she might fuss a bit in crib – but I'm shh\patting her and holding her legs. I then keep my hand on her shoulder for about 5-10 minutes and then leave. I only pick her up if she's inconsolable and the cry does not become a mantra cry but evolves to a hysterical scream.

Then she normally wakes up after 43 minutes of crib sleep – no jolts, nothing like that – just eyes are wide open in a second. And I cannot shh\pat her back to sleep in crib, she fusses and is only excited more. So I pick her up and she has an hour or 1,5 h of sleep in my arms.

More hugs, you're doing so well, just hope you're able to share the load sometimes?
I'm extremely lucky – we're staying in the country in my mum's house – so all the chores are taken up by my mum, I just deal with DD))

Offline trimbler

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Re: A new mom starting EASY to a 2 months daughter (hope it's not too late!)
« Reply #10 on: September 02, 2015, 21:44:55 pm »
Glad you have good support :) Tbh it sounds like you're doing really well, she's still very young and will take time to learn, but i think she's already learning :) I think sometimes we can read the books etc and think that if we do what they say then we'll have a perfect routine going and everything will be great (or,maybe it's just me?!), but of course it's not quite like that for most of is in practice ;) So I just want to reassure you that it all sounds quite normal and it will get easier - or at least, less intense :)



Offline Flamenco

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Re: A new mom starting EASY to a 2 months daughter (hope it's not too late!)
« Reply #11 on: September 03, 2015, 06:10:56 am »
I think sometimes we can read the books etc and think that if we do what they say then we'll have a perfect routine going and everything will be great (or,maybe it's just me?!), but of course it's not quite like that for most of is in practice

Exactly! And there's a huge disappointment when something does not happen by the book) I have to remind myself every minute that DD has not read all those books and has got no idea what's expected of her)

I cannot thank you enough for your kind words and support! Just to know that I am doing everything right, relieves me a lot. I am sure things will get easier, I have to be patient – that's the most difficult))

I hope to post a positive update here sometime more or less soon! All the best to you and your kids)

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Re: A new mom starting EASY to a 2 months daughter (hope it's not too late!)
« Reply #12 on: September 05, 2015, 08:47:24 am »
Sorry for the delayed reply, been busy at work! I well remember with DS that people would tell me it would start to get easier in a few months, whilst I was wondering how we'd make it to the end of the day :P I look forward to your updates, positive or otherwise ;) All the best to you too :-*