8months formula+solids schedule?

[Vsta]

HI ladies,
please, I need some help with the schedule for my 8months old. Currently we have that:

WT: 6am (can't make it later and he has a poo almost every morning that time), take him out not earlier than 6.30am
E1.1: formula 7.15 or 7.30am because he will take more in one go
E1.2: solids 8am (a pretty good portion of porridge with butter + a mashed fruit, up to 4 tbsp)
S1: somewhere from 9.15 - 9.30 (it's a long WT I know but it works for him) and may be up to 1.30h not more but sometimes only 30 mins and usually 1.15h
A: can be 10am\10.30\11am
E2.1: formula - most of the time at 11.30
E2.2: solids - around 12.30 to 1pm (not really interested most of the time, perhaps because of my cooking  gave a top up bottle instead several times)
S2: from 1.30\2pm to 3 or 3.30pm (usually 1.15h or 1.30h)
E3.1: formula - 4\4.30pm (his interest depends on a previous feed)
E3.2: solids 5pm - not always keen to eat
E3.3: formula before BT around 6\6.30pm
S: 6.30\7pm
and a NF somewhere, the time is always different. I guess it happens because he doesn't get enough calories during the day.

When I don't give anything on E2.2 he can take a full 200ml at E3.1 otherwise less than 100ml but looks hungry. I tried to give him solids as E2.1 but ended up with a bottle anyway because he started to cry. Recently he went through a growth sprout and ate a full 200ml bottle each feed with one NF again but it seems it almost ended.

So he has only breakfast that has been established with solids. And after a good breakfast he doesn't want to eat at 11am so an "ideal" schedule is moving forward.
He had a tongue tie which was snipped 4 months ago and BT bottle (120ml) took an hour with burping. So I've got a habit feeding him a bottle 2 or 3 times with 15min interval except NFs.

Should I drop a bottle? but his feedings with solids are still unclear for me. I don't give meat yet and he likes only oats with butter and homemade cottage cheese.
I hate cooking actually and can't figure out what to give him (something simple and healthy). He clenches a finger food and don't put it in the mouth.

as well I wonder, how long should a single feed take? for example, a bottle with formula for 1h and try feed solids for 30min...?

sorry for the long post and mistakes (English isn't my native language)
thanks

[creations]

Hi there
Your English is great so don't worry about it

I suggest that you keep solids as solids meal with only a small milk top up at the end of eating if necessary, otherwise water with solids.  I would not really give a large milk at the solids time as this is then effecting the rest of the days routine and he likely doesn't need it if he has already had his regular milk feed just an hour before.
So:
milks at 7.30, 11.30, 3.30 (I would bring this one earlier as he wakes at 3 or 3.30 and 4hrs have passed since last milk) and BT 6/6.30.
solids 1 hour after milk - 8.30 breakfast, 12.30 lunch, 4.30/5 dinner and if he doesn't eat much solids at those times then that's ok, he still has his milk.

No need to drop any bottles yet, totally normal to have 4 in the day.  Now is a good time to drop the night feed though so you can go ahead and wean that one.  I would reduce by 1oz each night and it will be gone in roughly 1 week.

solids are still unclear for me. I don't give meat yet and he likes only oats with butter and homemade cottage cheese.

There is no need to avoid meat. Babies can have meat and fish. Make sure it is cooked through and there are no bones.
Home made cottage cheese sounds yum!

I hate cooking actually and can't figure out what to give him (something simple and healthy)

It is generally recommended that you introduce LO to the foods you eat at home as a family so that he gets to know the regular meals and learns to join in. This does mean that you need quite healthy foods to offer though. It is sometimes a good time to make changes or adaptations of meals to make it healthier for the whole family rather than cooking a different meal for LO.

What sort of food do you eat?  Would you like to list some of your regular meals for me to look at and make suggestions for how LO can join in with those or how you might adapt them to make them healthier for LO and the family?

Otherwise simple foods to make are things like steamed vegetable batons or oven baked wedges of root vegetable (like potato wedges but you can use sweet potato, carrot, parsnip etc...it depends if this is suitable to you and your family too though really).

At this age I would expect milk feeds to be relatively quick (perhaps not an hour, that sounds more like a new born.  Is LO snacking do you think? It might be worth limiting the time for a little while to see if the other E times pick up).  solids meals can be quite quick if LO is not very interested yet but for those who like their solids at this age it could take 45 mins if they self feed.
There is no time limit but if it goes on too long it can run into nap time.

[Vsta]

thanks a lot for the quick reply

I tried to stick to a 4hrs intervals with formula for a couple of days. I think that today has been a really good one.
So what I've got:
E: 7-7.30am - formula 150ml
E: 8am - oats + butter as usual
S: 9.20am to 10.25am (he woke up around 5.30am today but this is another topic)
E: 11am - formula 150ml
E: 12.30-1pm - rice flakes with a baby veggie puree from a shop (wasn't really interested but ate several spoons!!)
S: 2pm - 2.30pm
E: 3pm - formula 150ml
E: 4pm - oats with a baby fruit puree from a shop (that left from yesterday) - here he was very enthusiastic and I had to add more food in the plate 
E: 5.45pm - formula almost 250ml
S: 6.30pm (I try to wean him off a paci that's why a bit late)

So I offered him formula within 30 mins and then gave solids 1h after except lunch time - it was rather 1.5h - is that ok?

A day before yesterday I gave him pasta with turkey mince (something we eat) and he really liked that but due a gagging reflex he just threw everything out so I offered him a bottle with formula. Next day he didn't want it and barely ate anything so I gave a bottle again in the solids time.
Actually I didn't think about that option, thank you

I wonder how can I teach him to eat finger food? he's playing with it and exploring

[creations]

That day looks really good

So I offered him formula within 30 mins and then gave solids 1h after except lunch time - it was rather 1.5h - is that ok?

No problem. As he gets older nap times and lengths are going to change and you will need to shuffle the E times around sleep, it's fine.  Just try to stick to keep things quite regular and consistent, so when the routine changes make it as consistent as you can rather than each day feeding at random times. The regular meal times will help him know what is coming and when to eat.

I wonder how can I teach him to eat finger food? he's playing with it and exploring

It will come with time and practice. Feeding purees is not really going to encourage self feeding or acceptance of finger food and textures though, I would offer more finger foods and fewer purees at this age.  Manipulating in the hand and in the mouth is great for all sorts of development including fine motor and language skills - it's not just about getting food and nutrients in.  Eating food with him and using your fingers can also help. You can also put a piece in his hand and gently show him how to bring it to his mouth even if he doesn't take any or just licks it.
You can also pre-load a fork or spoon and offer him that to hold and show him how to bring it to his mouth.  Most people start with a spoon but mine found a fork much more useful.

A day before yesterday I gave him pasta with turkey mince (something we eat) and he really liked that but due a gagging reflex he just threw everything

We also eat this.  DS was much much older before he could eat mince in that way tbh. The texture was not suitable for him even though he was very enthusiastic about food.  I made a couple of changes to my cooking rather than cooking a separate meal, for instance making the meat in to small meat balls (literally just a spoon full of raw mince squished into a ball type shape in your hand and then fried to cook through or almost through before adding tom sauce and veggies), my DS could handle this form of mince much better than the bitty-gritty kind stirred through sauce if you understand what I mean.  He was probably a bit older than yours too though before he took meat balls.  I also added chunkier bits of veg to the sauce, courgette, red pepper, aubergine and I could serve him the pasta, tom sauce, veg chunks in the sauce which was the same as our meal just with or without the meat.  Oh and I also chose pasta which was easy to pick up, twists are easier than penne as the twist provides a bit of grip in little hands. When we wanted spaghetti I threw in a small handful of twists or spiralli for DS into the same pot to cook and then picked them out for him when I drained the pasta. Not big changes in cooking but helped him - he got very annoyed with spaghetti as he was an "eater" rather than a "player".  When he got older he was spag to be like us and I set out mouthfuls of wound up spag on the plate so each section could be scooped with a fork...then he learned to spin it himself...all gradually of course.

[Vsta]

thanks again!!!

wanted to tell about our results:
- he liked small shell pasta from a chicken soup as it was very soft
- he liked turkey mince again but from my fingers and it was tender than last time
- I gave him avocado on a fork (adult one not a plastic fork for babies just took it away from him right after that) - yes, it was much better than with a spoon
- today he ate baked sweet potato and definitely liked it more than a steamed one (but again I gave it him some pieces and he played with others)
- luckily we don't have any allergy so I gave him porridge with cashew spread
- I give him another spoon to hold in hands when feeding him

he still wakes up at night though and seems hungry.

what would you recommend to do when he just refuses to eat prepared food when time comes?

[creations]

It sounds like things are going well

- I gave him avocado on a fork (adult one not a plastic fork for babies just took it away from him right after that) - yes, it was much better than with a spoon

I don't know if this helps but I always felt that the regular baby plastic forks were useless, the prongs are so wide and round that they don't really stab anything.  I started off instead with one of those disposable type forks (like party cutlery) which I just washed and reused, I was lucky to collect a few with shorter handles. they are light weight so easier for LO to manipulate rather than the heavy adult metal fork - it all depends on how comfortable you are with these things of course.  Then we progressed to child's metal cutlery similar to this:
http://www.ikea.com/gb/en/products/childrens-ikea-products/children-3-7/childrens-tableware/fabler-3-piece-cutlery-set-stainless-steel-art-60137571/
I let DS hold it and feed himself and at first I held on to the back end of the fork to make sure he didn't stab himself in the face. As he got more control of his movements I became more confident to just let him use it - I stabbed the food (pre-loading) and let him pick up the fork when ready, or take it from my hand.

he still wakes up at night though and seems hungry.

This might be growth spurt or just normal need for food in the night. At this age I probably wouldn't increase his night feeds as it is around this time it can be gently weaned to move all the feeds to day time.  You could begin by reducing his night bottle by an oz every couple of days so he is given time to adapt.

what would you recommend to do when he just refuses to eat prepared food when time comes?

Hard to give a clear cut answer to this.
If it is the same time of day he refuses then perhaps he is just not very hungry at that time which is okay, you could try shifting the time a bit or he can eat more at another time of day.
If it is a certain food he refuses then perhaps he just doesn't like that one food/texture. I made sure there was something healthy my DS definitely liked along with any new foods but I didn't allow him to dramatic limit his foods or become fussy.
If a LO is refusing food they have previously liked and "holding out" for sweet foods or pudding then I'd likely right back on the puddings and wait for their appetite to pick up with the main meals again.
If there is a chance of refusing foods just offer a very small portion so you can keep the rest clean and store it for another time.  Usually you can store food in the fridge or freezer, so long as LOs mouth/fingers/cutlery has not touched it. I usually used at least 2 bowls/plates for DS's food.

Hope this helps

[Vsta]

thank you for your help

they are light weight so easier for LO to manipulate rather than the heavy adult metal fork - it all depends on how comfortable you are with these things of course.

oh god, I know how it sound "an adult fork" I forgot to mention it was actually a dessert fork
yes, I totally agree with you about these plastic forks. I have one it just splits a piece of food and doesn't hold anything

At this age I probably wouldn't increase his night feeds as it is around this time it can be gently weaned to move all the feeds to day time.  You could begin by reducing his night bottle by an oz every couple of days so he is given time to adapt.

it have been a couple of weeks already since I feed him only 50ml of formula. But still I'm afraid to eliminate it completely. I decided to move the bottle towards morning time, don't know if it's going to work.

Hard to give a clear cut answer to this.

I came to conclusion it's rather a texture he doesn't like....
still struggling to feed him anything apart from an oatmeal.
Tried poultry that I ground using my fingers - nope. Started to refuse avocado.

Today I gave him greek yogurt - yes! tried a piece of bread (without any inclusions) for the first time - yes! but I didn't give him a lot as I'm afraid it may cause some stomach problems as it's too sticky (if you know what I mean )
and finished with mango from a fork which he really liked - well no doubt of course

I read several times that babies are given toasts. i don't quite understand is it cooked somehow?

[creations]

oh god, I know how it sound "an adult fork" I forgot to mention it was actually a dessert fork

It's okay, it did not sound terrible to me as I gave my LO a fork very early on   I also used some small desert forks too, and then child cutlery similar to the one I linked.  I have no doubt that you are watching out for your LO with the cutlery.

t have been a couple of weeks already since I feed him only 50ml of formula. But still I'm afraid to eliminate it completely. I decided to move the bottle towards morning time, don't know if it's going to work.

50ml is so little I really think you could just drop that now.  It is only 5 table spoons of milk, really not much at all, is it worth setting yourself up a job of moving the time of this feed and continuing to feed at night?  I would just stop the milk and try to resettle a night waking with your usual method of soothing (shush/pat or adapted) and if LO really wants something offer some water in a bottle.  The chances are LO will stop waking for that feed very quickly and take up some additional calories in the day.

tried a piece of bread (without any inclusions) for the first time - yes! but I didn't give him a lot as I'm afraid it may cause some stomach problems as it's too sticky (if you know what I mean

Yes, I understand. Some breads are rather doughy and I was worried with my LO that the doughy bread might gather in the roof of his mouth and he'd be unable to manipulate it well enough.  I felt this particularly about the soft white loaf type bread.  I felt more comfortable giving the edge of the slice, the crust, which is less doughy, or offering different types of bread which are less doughy such as pitta bread.
You asked about toast - this is a slice of bread which has been cooked again usually on a grill or in a "toaster" (electric machine) to brown the soft dough and make it crunchy.  It is a harder texture.  Toast is often served spread with butter, there are also many other spreads which can be put on after toasting the bread.

I did make some foods especially for my LO and I adapted my cooking to suit the needs of a baby (no salt or sugar or honey, no whole nuts, and things cut into large chunks/fingers/wedges to make easier to pick up) but a lot of what I served was what I ate. This is often recommended as it gets LO comfortable with the tastes and textures of family meals.
What sort of food do you eat?  It is really helpful to encourage LO to eat by serving the same thing as you eat at the same time so the meal is sociable and they can copy how you eat and see your enjoyment of food.

If you want to post some of your usual foods/meals I don't mind helping out with suggestions of what would be suitable or how to adapt it to make suitable for LO.  It might be more helpful that trying to give LO "toast" if this is not a normal part of your family or cultural meals.

[Vsta]

first of all, thank you for your patience

The chances are LO will stop waking for that feed very quickly and take up some additional calories in the day.

I'll try but he got a bit runny nose and cough right now, and wakes up too early in the night so last 2 nights I gave him 100ml. I will do DF today to avoid this NW around 1.30am and will give some water later.

You asked about toast - this is a slice of bread which has been cooked again usually on a grill or in a "toaster" (electric machine) to brown the soft dough and make it crunchy.  It is a harder texture.  Toast is often served spread with butter, there are also many other spreads which can be put on after toasting the bread.

oh, of course I know this type of toast just couldn't believe they are given to babies of his age. I find them too crusty and afraid of a choking hazard.

What sort of food do you eat?  It is really helpful to encourage LO to eat by serving the same thing as you eat at the same time so the meal is sociable and they can copy how you eat and see your enjoyment of food.

- oatmeal
- scrambled eggs (I already tried that but didn't notice any interest maybe it's a good idea to give him again)
- toasts
- cheddar cheese
- brown rice with vegetables
- buckwheat with chicken
- mashed potato
- turkey mince balls
- chicken soup
- chicken (bbq\from pressure cooker)
- fish (bbq\steamed)
- cottage cheese
- pasta (one day I gave him risoni pasta with greek yogurt and he just licked the yogurt and spit out the pieces of pasta)
- yogurt
- different types of fruits (in a baby nibbler and he likes them but I don't want to give him a lot of sugar)
- vegetables (some he likes one day but then refuses the next one)

this is what I've got from the top of my mind. Everything is pretty plain and without sauce.

He has only 2 front lower teeth if it matters and will be 9m next week.

[creations]

You might be amazed what a baby can eat, toast, meat, fish.  They do not need any teeth as their gums are very hard and they can gum at food and suck too.
From the list you have given LO the only thing I can see which I would not serve to LO is the brown rice. It's advised that babies do not have whole grain foods as they can fill their tummy up too much and make them feel too full which can lead to taking in fewer calories than they need.  Either switch to white rice for now or just don't serve the rice and serve only the vegetables part of the meal for LO.  Equally pasta should really be the regular white pasta type rather than brown pasta.

Chicken and fish is fine for LO, just make sure there are no bones.

Chicken soup and all the other foods, I suggest avoiding salt when you cook as LOs can handle very little salt and already there is some salt in cheese, bread/toast.

Scrambled egg, he might not like the texture rather than the egg. you could perhaps try a hard boiled egg or an omelet (cook right through for LO omelet, adults sometimes have lightly cooked).

Personally I consider fruit a good food. LOs do tend to like the sweeter foods and enjoy fruit, yes they have natural sugars but also great nutrients and vitamins. My approach was to eat within a reasonable time scale so that fruit sugars were not sitting on teeth/gums for extended periods of time. Set meal times is fine IMO.  Fruits can be served as finger foods (as can vegetables, meat, fish).  Perhaps try some large wedges (the size of an adult finger or thumb) LO can pick up and suck or gum on?  Hard fruits such as apple (or any hard vegetables, carrot, sweet potato etc) can be chopped into large wedges and steamed or oven cooked to soften - this way your LO gets to practice manipulating solid food in his mouth rather than always use the baby nibbler.  Manipulation of solids in the mouth helps him to learn to eat and also helps develop language skill, fine motor is developed through self feeding too.

Some 8 month olds just aren't into solids in a big way. Some are. It is quite individual. Try not to worry and continue to offer the foods

[Vsta]

I'd like to update with the current situation:

I found a sample EASY routine for a 10m old and adjusted it a bit for my 9m old. And what we have now:

6am Wake Up
7am Solids
8:20 - 8:30am Bottle (150-200ml)
9:45am Nap (yesterday it finished at 11:15am)
11:30pm Solids (but I think I can move it to 12:00pm)
1:00pm Bottle (200ml)
2:30pm Nap (usually only 30 mins but maybe 1h)
3pm or 3:30pm or whenever the nap ended Bottle (only 100ml)
4pm or 4.30pm or after 1h Solids
and BT Bottle (one part before bath and another after) (200ml + 150ml)

It goes very good so far. That's why:
- I got 1h in the morning to have a walk before his nap because I already cleaned the mess after solid feeding and giving a bottle is quite fast
- I've been doing it for a week and last 3 nights he wakes up at 5:30am but I give him a dummy and don't feed him - woo hoo! (he woke up a couple of times in the night but went to sleep with minimum crying, I didn't give him water or dummy)

In the nearest future I'll have to figure out changes to his routine between second nap and bedtime (probably to skip a bottle and he'll eat more solids and less formula before bed)

still have some struggle with solids

[Vsta]

what he eats now:
- milk porridge (oatmeal, semolina)
- fat greek yogurt
- cottage cheese
- fruits without nibbler (I tried mango, kiwi, melon, watermelon, berries, cooked pear and apple, orange)
- pureed soup with turkey mince balls (he doesn't eat meat balls if not pureed just spits out)
- cheese (self feeding)
- bread (self feeding)
- pureed chicken with veggies
- fruit purees in pouches

tried fish but it seems it causes tummy pain though he liked the taste (but mostly spit out after chewing it as other "meat")

[creations]

Hi
Looks like you found a routine you are happy with

When it comes to dropping a bottle I would probably go with either the 1pm or 3pm bottle so that the BT bottle remains a good one.  LOs usually last better over night on a a full milk feed rather than more solids in the evening.

[Vsta]

I would probably go with either the 1pm or 3pm bottle

yes, this is what I meant - 3pm bottle

(but it seems I've faced an early 2-1 transition...he's always needed less hours of sleep than average
 went to NAPS board....)