Author Topic: Grrr help please :(  (Read 6357 times)

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Offline FPT23

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Grrr help please :(
« on: February 28, 2017, 19:59:22 pm »
Hi all.

I'm really having a hard time with this 2-1 :(

I've been doing set naps at 11:30 despite any and all wake up times in the morning.

He has always done 2-3 hr naps off 4 hr AT...we've never had short naps... but. now he can't get passed 1.5 hrs and WILL NOT catnap at all later in the day. Completely rejects it at all costs. APOP used to be very easy and now it's impossible

I started the set nap because he would reject his CN, extremely so. His  AT to BT was reaaaally long which caused OT, NWs and EWs....

Please someone with any suggestions to get this nap longer again? It doesn't matter the AT. I've done 4.5 hr A and today he had an EW so AT to his nap at 11:30 was 5 AT... it made zero difference. Still woke. Still OT..He wakes screaming every single time.

Tips to get this nap longer :( ?

We r very exhausted with the EWs. He's always had amazing sleep habits and this is all hard for us.

Any help would be appreciated mamas :( !! We are becoming desperate :'( as he's seemingly super OT
« Last Edit: February 28, 2017, 20:05:57 pm by FPT23 »
Fabi






Offline Jodes112

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Re: Grrr help please :(
« Reply #1 on: March 01, 2017, 08:43:41 am »
Hello there, how old is he?

1.5 hour nap is pretty normal, tbh. If i were you though id set the nap 1 hour later at say 12.30 and leave it there for a few days see how that helps.

I found with DD after 1yo as the months went on that nap was pushed later we stuck at 12.30 for a long while & it was often 1.5/2hours.

Jody
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Offline FPT23

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Re: Grrr help please :(
« Reply #2 on: March 01, 2017, 12:42:28 pm »
Hi!

Thanks for the help :)

I'm not sure I was clear but I meant he doesn't go passed 1.5 hrs. He won't reach it.

I'm also just very much done w the EWs... he's never been one to EW and I know all this is due to OT.

:(
Fabi






Offline Lindsay27

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Re: Grrr help please :(
« Reply #3 on: March 01, 2017, 13:52:06 pm »
We are having similar problems Fabi - when we dropped to 1 nap she was doing somewhere between 2-3hrs and last weekend I was getting 1 x 1.15hr naps, which is NOT enough on 1 nap.

I wonder if you could do a short AM/long PM to catch up a bit?  With the EW do you think you could get him down earlier for a short AM?  Maybe 10-10:30 and then PM nap around 1:30/2?



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Re: Grrr help please :(
« Reply #4 on: March 01, 2017, 19:27:00 pm »
1.5 hour nap is pretty normal, tbh. If i were you though id set the nap 1 hour later at say 12.30 and leave it there for a few days see how that helps.
I agree with later set nap time.  Whether it lengthens again or not it balances out the day more, discourages EW from the nap coming too early and reduces the A time before BT which can also cause EWs with OT before BT.
My guess is it would lengthen some though.


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Re: Grrr help please :(
« Reply #5 on: March 01, 2017, 19:27:18 pm »
Hi Lindsay. Thank you :)

I wonder if your LO is going through teething or SA? Since she had previously done the long naps when you dropped.

I decided to do a set nap bc he completely rejects drhe CN at all costs. I did do the capping  of nap 1 but I didn't prefer it since it's his best nap and he's always took 2-3 hrs w it. Also, when I did cap it, it backfired bc he still rejected the CN :( ....so I just decided to go this way.

Thanks for the suggestion... he's always had a longggggg morning A. So I never really thought of that! It makes sense though :)

Hmmm I will give it a go since this set nap isn't working much anyway ::)
Fabi






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Re: Grrr help please :(
« Reply #6 on: March 01, 2017, 19:29:46 pm »
Hi Creations!

Well today he was falling asleep in his high chair! That's a first. On his own :( poor baby. He had another EW today but eventually went back to sleep on his own but I had to wake for a school run anyway ::)

Around 11:00am he was falling asleep :( ....today he went down at 12:15, lets see what happens!

The AT yst didn't seem to make a diff. He wakes at the same time from a nap. Whether it was 4, 4.5, 5 hr AT, he still short napped.

::) ...very tiring!
Fabi






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Re: Grrr help please :(
« Reply #7 on: March 02, 2017, 13:19:12 pm »
The AT yst didn't seem to make a diff. He wakes at the same time from a nap. Whether it was 4, 4.5, 5 hr AT, he still short napped.
It's nto what happens in a single day which settles routine though. One day on a different A time is not going to show you the results of that A time or set nap time.

If you are going to reduce the first A and go for a morning CN and a long afternoon nap as Lyndsay has suggestion for one option then you also wouldn't judge results on one day - you would need to be consistent to establish it and see how the results tern out over time.

Many times I see toddlers take a long while to adapt to a new routine.  For instance taking time to increase nap length after the 2-1 or taking time to increase night length after the 1-0. and often what I see is settling after weeks of consistency (rather than days).


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Re: Grrr help please :(
« Reply #8 on: March 02, 2017, 18:34:39 pm »
Try and stick with the later nap times for a few days and just see how you go. Push through the OT in the AM and aim for nap to be 12.15/12.30. Or even fix at 12.15 for a while if he cant make it to 12.30.

I cant remember what age DD and DS was but we scrapped looking at A times when they had fully establised one nap. The one nap did start off at around 11am but was gradually pushed later just so it eventually fit into the middle of the day. A times didnt seem so important at this point and more of just watching cues and acting on issues if they arose (EW, NW) YK?

How did todays nap go?
Jody
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Offline FPT23

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Re: Grrr help please :(
« Reply #9 on: March 02, 2017, 19:09:49 pm »
Hi thanks Creations!

I actually decided to stick w the set nap only because I've done the capping and it backfired bc he simply just refuses any afternoon sleep!

His nap was 2.5 hrs ;D whooooooo. Wake up was 7:15 am today so we are good w that 12pm nap.

See how it goes. Either way I need to wake before 2:30 with school runs... so far so good so we'll see how it goes. Thanks a lot mamas :)

Something else I would like suggestions with if y'all have any for me :D

What are yalls tips on SA at this age? We used to simply walk out so easily (as he's always been angel baby for sleep) and lately for about 1.5 mths he's needed a hand or a touch... if I leave like before he stands up and screams. He also cries a lot upon waking. Tips on how to handle SA with hopes of not adjusting him to rely on my hand to sleep...?

Also, suggestions on wind down routines? The older he gets the more stimulated he is with so much fun stuff around him ;) ....it seems he needs more of a wind down or something to settle him or he won't settle to sleep either... what do you all use for new wind downs with these toddlers ;) it's been awhile since I had another one hehe :)

Xo thank you!!
Fabi






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Re: Grrr help please :(
« Reply #10 on: March 03, 2017, 09:32:19 am »
SA, or what looks like SA at nap time can be UT, that's what I found with my DS anyway and have seen on several threads.  Although LO might calm and go to sleep with a hand on him at an earlier time, if the nap is moved later there is often a reduction in the SA symptoms.  Obviously SA can be for other reasons too and can be very apparent during A times, I'm just mentioning what I've found with the SA around naps.
I think if you keep that nap at the later time (I think you are at 12pm, you might move it later, even "set" naps can be moved when needed to establish the most suitable routine) you might see a reduction in SA.
Another reason for SA is of course OT and LO just being a grouch from not having enough sleep. IMO the later nap can lead to a better nap and can also reduce afternoon OT signs or at least reduce the A time to BT which helps to avoid OT during this transition.
For SA during A time I found the best routine through was to take him everywhere with me, talk to him about everything I was doing and tell him if I was leaving the room, invite him to come with me, or tell him I'd be back eg "I am just getting my drink from the kitchen, I'll be back".  When I returned to the room I'd say "I'm back" - I found these key phrases very useful as he grew up and he seemed to have a lot of confidence and trust in them.

WD - hmm..sorry but I'm going to say the same thing again.  The later nap time can really help with WD.  What can appear to be a need for a long WD can really be LO being unable to settle well for the nap due to a touch of UT.  I found for most phases when mine was super tired he slept well, any slight UT caused big problems for us (including waking too early from the nap and being a huge grouch all afternoon).  Mine liked a very short WD or he felt he was missing out on the day. Upstairs, wee/nappy on, into bed room , one song with cuddle and into bed, kiss and walk out.
 
Hope you have a good day x


Offline FPT23

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Re: Grrr help please :(
« Reply #11 on: March 03, 2017, 20:54:48 pm »
Hi thank you :)

Yes jean never been one to really need a long wind down.

Well I kept to the 12pm nap and same thing. Just stands and cries. And today gave me a 30 min nap... I resettled and he only slept an additional 20 mins.

For months even at BT ...it doesn't matter how tired or UT he is- he just stands and screams. Every time. As soon as I get hand off of him- cries.

So I am not sure what it is then. Looks like we'll be back to EBT today and an EW tmw pushing his nap before 12... I was soon 12 when he woke at 7...

:-/
Fabi






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Re: Grrr help please :(
« Reply #12 on: March 05, 2017, 16:18:53 pm »
How have things been?
I see Jody suggested 12.30pm for the set nap - have you considered this?


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Re: Grrr help please :(
« Reply #13 on: March 05, 2017, 19:05:37 pm »
Hi how r u :)

Thanks for checking in.

Well as I mentioned above, SA is serious and I wish I had a way to remove myself from the equation. For months it was always a kiss good night and out the door... now he wants to stand, yell and won't sit down. Then if I help him down, walk away--- he stands and does it again and again. Regardless of nap time or bed time.... it could be UT but I genuinely feel it's OT/OS and he can't settle.

He's grown accustomed to using a hand to fall asleep- any suggestions on that?

Well, he had gave me a 30 min OT nap which I resettled and he fell back to sleep for an additional few mins. Refused CN so ended up with a BT of 6:00-ish pm. Yesterday he did an EW of 5:30 unable to resettle (mind you, EWs are rare with him and NWs have stopped) ...so I ended up doing nap at 11:30 am since his day before that was rough and the EW... I figured he was tired? Should I have stuck to the same nap time, regardless you think? .....he napped again less than 1.5hrs (about 1.15) and refused CN as usual... BT was around 6:15pm by the time he went to sleep.

Today he slept in so he must've been OT! Woke at 7:15am and his nap was at 12:00... still needed my hand but very quickly fell asleep. Within maybe 1-2 mins. He was a bit OS and tried to stand when I removed hand slightly but he dozed off.

What do you think??
No I haven't tried 12:30pm ...I've stuck to 11:30-12:00
Fabi






Offline FPT23

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Re: Grrr help please :(
« Reply #14 on: March 05, 2017, 20:37:13 pm »
Woke up screaming again less than 1.5 hrs


I'm just over tiring the kid honestly is how I feel :( ? I've pushed him to 5hr A and done this set nap for weeks and it's just making him tired bc he won't nap long :(?

:'(

This was the same amount of time from when I got that 7am WU last time and got a long nap so I don't know anymore. You don't think this could possibly do with the hand on him thing? He's became accustomed and can't settle? He just wakes so miserable :'(

:-/
« Last Edit: March 05, 2017, 20:51:55 pm by FPT23 »
Fabi






Offline Jodes112

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Re: Grrr help please :(
« Reply #15 on: March 05, 2017, 21:54:48 pm »
Hey
You know the day he woke at 7.30am? I definatley would have pushed that nap to 12.30 especially on that day, as he wasnt OT & had slept well the day before also.

I personally think set that nap at between 12.15 to 12.30 dependant on how tired/how long he can last. But i wouldnt shift the time beyond that. Just keep pushing though and keep it at that time. It may be hard the first few days but keep it going it will settle.
Jody
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Re: Grrr help please :(
« Reply #16 on: March 06, 2017, 15:33:20 pm »
Hi Jody thanks for the response :)

I didn't have a day in which he woke at 7:30? He woke at 7:15 one morning and I did the 12pm nap that got me 2-2.5hr nap. That happened 2 days in a row w the same WU time.

Yst he did the same WU time, did the same 12:00pm nap and he did it again. Napping about 1hr 15. He also had gone down very easy yst too. He woke up very upset :(

Today he woke at 6:55am so that's 7am to me haha-- I will try for the 12:15 nap... see if it makes a difference after having a 12hr night.

Any tips with removing myself out of helping him to sleep. Hes officially dependent on my hand. As soon as I remove, he cries. Same w BT.

Xo :)
Fabi






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Re: Grrr help please :(
« Reply #17 on: March 06, 2017, 18:54:38 pm »
I agree with what Jody said.

A couple of things to bare in mind.
- OT can come from the nap being too early, although you see the level of tiredness in the morning it is often the tiredness building in the4 afternoon and before BT which can cause a longer term OT from the nap coming early over a period of time. It can be a bit of a viscous cycle with EBT causing earlier WU (due to finishing sleeping) or OT before BT causing EW due to OT (not finished sleeping but can't sleep).
- That waking crying mind nap can be caused by UT. Mine did it when his nap needed moving 10-15 mins later.  He then could transition instead of waking really tried after one cycle.
- the night sleep/length and WU time are more likely to balance out and settle down if you keep the nap and BT at the set times.

hth fx


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Re: Grrr help please :(
« Reply #18 on: March 06, 2017, 19:17:39 pm »
Hi thank you creations :)

What is HTH FX (sorry haha)

I went ahead and did 12:15 pm today. He was actually asleep by 12:10... I expected needing the hand thing and spending time like usual but he crashed.

I've always preferred and have always been more AT with him. I feel that's why we never had issues with nap transitions and rarely had NWs/EWs... if he did it was a sign for me to push. And it always worked

I just feel this jump is scarier from our first experience and I want to handle it better is all haha ::)

Ty and let's see what happens today :)
Fabi






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Re: Grrr help please :(
« Reply #19 on: March 06, 2017, 19:35:16 pm »
What is HTH FX (sorry haha)
Hope This Helps
Finger crossed


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Re: Grrr help please :(
« Reply #20 on: March 06, 2017, 21:07:33 pm »
Oh ok haha :)

Well I did the nap... and he slept 1 hr 50mins woke up screaming :(

But longer than most days
Fabi






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Re: Grrr help please :(
« Reply #21 on: March 07, 2017, 19:19:32 pm »
Keep it the same for a week or so & see how you get on. It needs time to settle.
How old is he? I know he is 1 but how many months?

For us 1.5hr nap became normal. Anything longer than that was a bonus. Also, my kids would often wake up grumpy. It doesnt neccissarly mean they havent slept wel/had long enough!

Keep at it!

Jody
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Re: Grrr help please :(
« Reply #22 on: March 07, 2017, 20:41:54 pm »
Thanks.

Well yst he slept almost that 2hr at 12:15 nap.

He also refused BT and was very playful. Pushed it 1 hour. Slept from 7:30/7am today

Uhm tried nap again at 12:15 after a 7am WU... slept 1hr 20 mins woke hysterical as normal

So I don't know anymore what's going on. Zero patterns :-/
Fabi






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Re: Grrr help please :(
« Reply #23 on: March 07, 2017, 20:56:41 pm »
Let it settle in & keep it set. See how he has got on in a week.
Jody
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Re: Grrr help please :(
« Reply #24 on: March 08, 2017, 20:31:00 pm »
Will do. Day 3 and it's gotten worse haha but staying optimistic ;)

Any suggestions to remove me out of the equation? I think I've became a prop for sure...

Had 2 NWs which are very rare, he won't sleep without my hand, naps have shortened unless I go in and help at each transition... and he wakes screaming hysterically each time. No matter what.

Feeling a tad desperate :'(
Fabi






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Re: Grrr help please :(
« Reply #25 on: March 08, 2017, 20:34:25 pm »
I truly don't feel it's a matter of him being tired enough yk?

I feel it's SA and I've become a prop :(

Fabi






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Re: Grrr help please :(
« Reply #26 on: March 09, 2017, 19:38:45 pm »
It's gotten worse- do u think the 12:15 has only gotten him OT?

We had another NW/EW and I move one finger off of him and he would scream. I think I'm officially a prop. How did this happen :( I used to PD with ease and walk away for MONTHS :(

He had another wake and he didn't go back to sleep until 2 hours later. That day he had a nap of 1 hr 20 mins and BT was at 6...

He also won't nap without my hand... :(

I feel I'm making terrible mistakes :( and it hurts him
Fabi






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Re: Grrr help please :(
« Reply #27 on: March 09, 2017, 20:45:26 pm »
Ooh no dont beat yourself up! All you have been doing is comforting your child its definatley not something to be mad at yourself for!

Tbh i dont know how to handle the prop situation. It might be an idea to post in props and see if you can get advice there. My advice would be gradual withdrawal, but i wouldnt know where to go next when you say he screams when you lift on finger.

Wrt the NW, could there be anything else that is causing this? Ie, illness, teeth? Or do you think that he is in fact OT? I think you need to follow your gut. If you feel that he is just not able to handle the later nap, pull it back a little. How about trying 11.45 for a while.

EBT was always a winner for us when the kids had just transitioned to one nap. 6pm BT was used often & really helped us for catch up xx

Definatly post in the prop section.
Jody
 xx

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Re: Grrr help please :(
« Reply #28 on: March 09, 2017, 21:26:54 pm »
Ty Jody for your help.

I'm honestly just over the SCREAMS when he wakes up every single day. It's HYSTERICAL.

Why does he do that!?! SA!?! I can't help but feel somewhat responsible :(

I'm gna try and stick w the 12:15 nap or whatever just to see. I stick w 6pm too and some days he pulls 13hr nights. Not the past few days since I pushed him. Is it set nap regardless of WU time in the mornings? I've been getting 30 min naps too. Doesn't this all sound like OT territory? Giving unusual NWs, and EWs? Despite the late nap he's been EWing in the 4am/5am area. I'm simply exhausted :( ,

The EW and NWs... noooo nothing that I know of. Nothing out of the "ordinary" he had a tooth come through but not recently any that I can see.


The screaming... I just want that to stop.

How is gradual withdrawal? Each time spend less time w him? He just needs a finger on him and if I lift it, it's over :(

I don't get it :(

Creations, any additional thoughts?
« Last Edit: March 09, 2017, 21:29:28 pm by FPT23 »
Fabi






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Re: Grrr help please :(
« Reply #29 on: March 10, 2017, 13:16:23 pm »
Ooh no dont beat yourself up! All you have been doing is comforting your child its definatley not something to be mad at yourself for!
Yes, don't be mad at yourself for giving support.

Tbh i dont know how to handle the prop situation. It might be an idea to post in props and see if you can get advice there.
Erm, I don't think we have a props board any longer.

The finger prop - do you have a key phrase?  I think that's what I would do. I'd replace the finger with a key phrase "I'm here, you're okay" by introducing it whilst you have your finger on him and then lift, say, put back, say, lift say, put back say.  Over a few days (not long) you can wean a prop. The verbal reassurance is lessened by saying it less frequently and from further away (also out of the room). For example on SA type things as well as helping my DS with a hand on him or similar I have also judged when enough is enough...when actually he needs to be told to go to sleep.  He is not in danger I am not ignoring him but it is time to go to sleep and you don't need a finger on you because I am still responding to you.  Know what I mean?

The screaming - sorry I am not sure what to suggest.  Does he recover relatively quickly? some can scream every wake up but recover well.  Mine would scream on waking if he had an UT nap because he couldn't transition and was still tired or because he was teething.  Our entire year from 1yo to 2yo was teething - almost permanently. Drove me nuts.

Is it set nap regardless of WU time in the mornings?
I would yes. It's the fastest way to get LO to self regulate the sleep.


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Re: Grrr help please :(
« Reply #30 on: March 10, 2017, 21:30:32 pm »
I've been doing set naps for about a week or more and it hasn't really resolved anything.

It's gotten worse w NWs/EWs everyday.. short naps of 30 mins that need resettling

Today he woke at 5am, I stuck with 12:15 nap... woke after 1hr 10 mins.

So I think I'm just over it haha. It didn't seem to help so I'm gna attempt going back. Seems set naps at that time or pushing him didn't help us much. I don't get how 4hr AT consistently gave me 2-3hr naps and as soon as he's ready to drop the CN, and I push- he can't nap passed the 1.5 mark.. :(

He's never had EWs or NWs so this is not fun to deal w now that he's I suppose

I need to work on the SA problem and my hand/small touch as a prop one way or another.

I appreciate the help. Let's see what happens in a few more days

Xo
Fabi