Nursing Newborn Sleep Issues

[danlynclark]

My newborn son is 4 days old.  At first he was doing good with eating and then napping.  I was able to get him to do a few longer feeds yesterday when my milk came in to try to get him to have the hind milk.  However, now he only eats for 10 minutes and then falls asleep at the breast.  I have tried waking him to continue, but it really seems like hes eating and sleeping at the same time.  The problem is, when hes done drinking I try to slip him into his bassinet or his sleeper and he wakes up within 5 minutes and will not be settled until I nurse him.  So basically he is either always eating or at least suckling.  When he isn't, he's asleep on my arm.  Even when I change his diaper he is crying until I feed him.  I dont know that he can be that hungry?  Am I setting him up for a bad sleep pattern or is this just another "this too shall pass" situation?  Any advice from moms who have been there?  I know the first few weeks are naturally going to be a challenge, but any tips on helping me get maybe a half hour of sleep would help a lot.
Thanks all.
Lyn

[danlynclark]

 :'(I really need help with this.  He has been at it all day.  He hasnt slept longer than 1/2 hour since his 2 hours nap at 530 AM.  Its now 615 pM.  My nipples got so sore, I think I nursed him all day long.   I had to break out the pacifier.  I know hes only 4 days old.  But I didn't know what else to do.  He was getting frustrating with my nipples aswell.  I think he is WAY overtired, but I do not know how to proceed from here.  Please help me
Lyn

[shelliz]

Hi there!!

  Just wanted to offer you some hugs! It has been a while since I nursed a newborn but I wanted to quote some from the La Leche League book.

"Nursing for less than five minutes could mean that the feeding would end almost before it started. And once the milk is flowing, the slight soreness that may be felt when the baby starts to nurse subsides. Keep in mind that, in the beginning, nursing frequently-every two hours or so from the beginning of one feeding to the beginning of the next-is easier on the nipples and at the same time stimulates the production of mild."
"The legnth of a breastfeeding session should be determined by the baby's interest and response. He will usually suck eagerly, swallowing often, for the first ten to twenty minutes. Then the flow of milk decreases and he begins to doze or lose interest. That's the time to switch him to the other breast. You may want to stop at this point to burp him or change his diaper, and then get him started on the other side. As long as he is sucking correctly, you can let him nurse as long as he wants on the second side."


In regards to sleep.... I remember not getting much sleep at all the first few weeks.  It is really hard but I promise it will get easier!  I am sure you have heard it a bunch already but try and nap when your baby does. I wish I had better advice on getting him to sleep a bit longer. I am hoping you will get some more advice tomorrow.  I would highly recommend giving a lactation consultant a call or La Leche League if you have any concerns. I used BOTH of them when my baby was that young. LLL will help you over the phone free of charge and they always are full of knowledge and experience.  Their number is 1.800.LA LECHE. You can also go to lalecheleague.org for alot more info.  You can call your hospital that you delievered in and they can connect you with the lactation consultants there as well (which is also free of charge). I didn't have this lovely site when I first began and I found alot of answers in the two above resources. Hopefully we can help you enough here but if you don't get the answers you need quick enough then the above places should be able to help too.

Good luck hun!

Shelby

[jbjhiker]

Big hugs and prayers for you!  Those first few days can be really tough, esp when you are so tired and your body is adjusting to so much!  It does get easier.  The first few days, you are both just trying to learn what to do!! And when you are so tired, it is tough to focus on getting the baby to have a full feeding, but try as much as you can to get him to feed at least 10 minutes on each side so that he will be full.  You can try changing his diaper between sides to help "wake" him up a bit so that he will get full feedings.   The first two weeks, the goal for feedings should really be a full feeding each time....and try to go at least 2 1/2 hours in between feedings (counting from the beginning of one feeding to the beginning of the next).  The EASY cycle can take a few days to get into, but it really is a great "schedule" once you implement it. 
It sounds like he is using your nipple to suckle for comfort- the pacifer should help you with this for now. 
Have you tried Lansinoh for nipple soreness?  That helped me alot the first few weeks, and it is safe for your baby! 
Remember too that it is important to take care of you- you need rest...and if all else "fails" (diaper's clean, been fed, isn't hot/cold/overstimulated, etc, and you've tried to comfort him) and your baby is still fussing- it is okay to let the baby cry....just think of it as "exercising" his lungs for a little while! 
We have all been there...and again, it does get better- hang in there.  Hope that helps a bit!

[RachelC]

Hi there Lyn!  Welcome to the boards and congratulations on your little one.  The beginning can be sooooo tough.  Here are two threads to take a peek at, from the breastfeeding FAQ board:

https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=64627.0

https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=63428.0

I am sorry, but I need to disagree with jbjhiker.  A 10 minute feed is not necessarily a goal.  I was very set on that with my first baby.... and it drove me crazy that she wasn't eating for the recommended length of time.  Turns out, she was an effcient eater from the beginning and gained 3 pounds her first month.  And, at this point, 2.5 hours between feeds might be too long for your little one.  You need to follow his cues.  He may have also hit a growth spurt.  ( https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=66001.0) Hang in there!

I also have to just clarify about letting your baby cry.  You do not want to let him cry alone.  If he is crying, please hold him and try to comfort him.... sometimes no matter what you do, it doesn't work, but he needs you to be with him.

Hope that helps.  {{{{hugs}}}} 

[danlynclark]

Thanks ladies for your support.  I do really appreciate it.  The whole schedule thing is not important to me anymore.  Right now I would really like him to get some real sleep.  I understand the "sleep when he naps", but he does not nap.   I am worried about this situation as it went on all night last night and all day today and doesn't appear to be letting up.  Is he going to finally give in and have a decent 1 or 2 hours nap?  I'd be happy with just ONE little nap, so that I know hes getting some real rest.  I'm worried about him.  If he isn't sucking on the breast, hes SCREAMING.  I noticed that his belly button/umbilical cord stump looks more protuding.  Could that be caused by his screaming?
My husband is home, and is doing his best to soothe him.  But will the soothing end and his sleep begin?  I'm not a lazy mom, I understand the commitment.  I'm just really worried about this patten he's in of sucking and sleeping at the same time, with no true nap.  I don't believe he truly sleeps because once i stop rocking him in my arms or in the comfy chair, he starts crying. 
Thanks again for your advice ladies.  I don't know what to do from here.  I just wanted to add, its not like he wants to eat every hour, etc.  Its CONSTANT.  He will not be soothed or stop screaming any other way.  And even then he is so fussy.  He bobs off the breast and gets really irritated if he doesnt get the nipple back immediately
Lyn

[binxyboo]

I had a big long reply and then my computer went nuts and I lost it. Here is the edited version...Those first few weeks can be tough, when Mom and baby are figuring nursing out. The first thing I am wondering is have you had his latch evaluated by a LC and also have them observe a full feeding, just to see if he is eating as efficiently as he can? I think a sling would be great, so you could  hold your baby close, nurse, let them nap in there etc. I also found it wonderful to nurse lying down from the very beginning. Lots of babies really do need to suck, suck, suck, for comfort as much as anything. I am sure you know how to watch for signs that he is getting enough milk, 6 wet diapers and 3 poopy ones in 24 hours.

Hang in there xx

[danlynclark]

You guys.  Its an absolute miracle.  DH and I worked on taking turns soothing him etc. DH knew how tired I was, and told me to get more sleep.  Our son fell asleep truly at about 945 Pm.  I knew he was WAY overtired, he has been sleeping for 4 hours.  Do I still need to wake him up t feed him?  Or because it is nighttime and we went though about 24 hours of no sleep, can I wake him@ the 5 hour mark?
THANKS
Lyn

[RachelC]

Hi Lyn.  I am assuming you have fed him by now    With my girls, I made sure they were eating frequently during the day and I let them go as long as they wanted overnight.

It is so very hard in the beginning... you may end up holding him to sleep for a couple days (My dh did that alot with our first).  Are you swaddling?  Dark enviroment?  White noise?  You want to create a womb like environment for him.... he just spent 9 months in there    I'm glad you got some rest.  More {{{{hugs}}}} to you.  Oh, and Michelle's idea of a sling is wonderful!  Although it won't get YOU any sleep, it will get him rested.

[danlynclark]

Well we woke him at 2 AM to feed last night.  He ate and then he wanted to continue to suckle.  DH went to bed upstairs since he had to work at 6 AM.  I held our son and rocked him, patted him, and shhhed him until he was settled enough to be on my chest.  I laid down with him and we "rested" until 4:45 AM.  I'm not sure how much sleep he got.  He did keep rousing to fuss and try to suck, but I just patted and shhhhed him until he would settle and then just ease off on the patting and shhing while he was calm.   At 4:45 he was too unsettled, so I fed him.  I'm working harder on accomplishing a wider latch.  He has such a tiny mouth and his lower chin is more inset, so its tough.  I'm also trying to introduce the pacifier into his naps.  I do feel he is waking up when he sucks and his mouth is empty.  Is he truly sleeping when hes sucking?
Ladies, I really appreciate all of your prayers and support.  Last night felt miraculous.
So, hes sleeping right now in his comfy chair with his pacifier.  He stirs, but I just rock the chair.

As far as environment.   I have a small lamp on in the corner so I can see if he is latching, sleeping, spat the paci out.  Its quiet in here and I'm playing the soothing nature lullabies that my husband used last night.  I will look for some "white noise".  Any suggestions for some "noise" I may have around my house?

Thanks again for your help ladies.  I will try to post on the PROPS section re: introduing the pacifier.  But if you have any suggestions, I'd love to hear them.

Lyn

[Duckie]

Lyn - I've got no advice, just a hug because I completely remember that whole first time mommy overwhelmed newborn stage....I wrote (somewhere) on the boards here when my 2nd was about 4 days old that he (and I) slept from something like 1130 - 230am (3 whole hours) and that I felt glorious!  There is a reason why sleep deprivation is used as a torture method!

Just remember - the first 6 weeks (hardest part, IMO) only lasts 6 weeks!

[binxyboo]

YAY!

[danlynclark]

Yay is right ladies!!  He just woke up from his 2 hour nap!!!!!!  I used his paci at the beginning, he spat it out after 25 minutes.  He needed some slight rocking of the chair.  But wow!!!!  Now we're working on the proper feeding latch.  While he slept I wrote down little things like "At this time he starts fussing with his hands.  Here he almost woke up, but soothed himself back to sleep" etc.  Then I will compare what he does at his next nap. 
It is such a new day today, and I feel positive!!!
Lyn

[meltown]

congrats on getting through it!  I know it is probably a releif.  My BIL's wife had a baby 3 weeks after me.  they have held their baby to sleep and don't use EASY.  It is horrible for them.  now that things seem to be better, I would try to get the Eating on a consistant schedual.  that way when your lo is older you will have one less thing to try to implement when you start EASY full on.  Also White noise can be lullibies.  It helps a lot of kids get to sleep and stay asleep if they have a hard time.  It also gives you a chance to do somehtings and don't have to tip toe around.  for some kids it is a life saver! 

Also with Shh/patting I tried holding my son down in my arm to do it and it seemed to get worse.  I found this sight and read about it and found that tracy said to put the baby up on my shoulder.  this made the biggest difference in the amount of time it took my son to calm.  you may need to try different positions of holding him as you pat/shh.  I'm not sure why it made a difference for him to be up but it did.

Roght now when the baby is young, it is almost survival mode.  you do what you can.  by 1 month things should be at a point where you could start to really implement Easy.  just do your best and keep your head up.  Get as much rest as you can and Have others come and help you!  your sleep and rest is vital to you being able to take care of your LO.  Best of Luck and HUGS!!!!

[RachelC]

now that things seem to be better, I would try to get the Eating on a consistant schedual. 

I wouldn't worry about this right now.  Your baby is only 5 days old and needs to eat on demand for a while (to establish your breastfeeding relationship).